From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Thu May 31 16:02:30 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDFE1EFCEA6 for ; Thu, 31 May 2018 16:02:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ronald-lists@klop.ws) Received: from smarthost1.greenhost.nl (smarthost1.greenhost.nl [195.190.28.92]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7CD5A6FBEC; Thu, 31 May 2018 16:02:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ronald-lists@klop.ws) Received: from smtp.greenhost.nl ([213.108.110.112]) by smarthost1.greenhost.nl with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fOQ1y-0004vq-BX; Thu, 31 May 2018 18:02:27 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes To: "Daniel Eischen" , "Joe Maloney" Cc: "Konstantin Belousov" , "Johannes Lundberg" , freebsd-current Subject: Re: [RFC] Deprecation and removal of the drm2 driver References: <20180524160234.GD68014@FreeBSD.org> <201805241610.w4OGAAGY041280@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> <20180530235156.310870d0@thor.intern.walstatt.dynvpn.de> <20180531101643.GV3789@kib.kiev.ua> Date: Thu, 31 May 2018 18:02:26 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Ronald Klop" Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Opera Mail/12.16 (FreeBSD) X-Authenticated-As-Hash: 398f5522cb258ce43cb679602f8cfe8b62a256d1 X-Virus-Scanned: by clamav at smarthost1.samage.net X-Spam-Level: / X-Spam-Score: -0.2 X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED, BAYES_50 autolearn=disabled version=3.4.0 X-Scan-Signature: 049f1f45ba4289533fd3e2bb72fd36da X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 May 2018 16:02:30 -0000 On Thu, 31 May 2018 17:34:18 +0200, Joe Maloney wrote: > I personally wish that more drivers, and firmware were separated from > base. > > For example wireless firmware: > > https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=169433 > > That was a ticket which I chimed in on about a firmware I needed to make > my > wireless adapter work. I went through numerous efforts on IRC, and > elsewhere to try to bring attention that ticket in order to attempt to > get > that firmware backported for several 10.x releases in a row without > success. The firmware worked perfectly fine in PC-BSD where it was > cherry > picked for numerous 10.x releases. I would support an idea that the FreeBSD project only delivers CURRENT (and one periodic release with security fixes) and parties like PC-BSD maintain stable branches and support for companies. I read about this somewhere a while ago and the idea sticks. Backporting to code 2+ years old is not the best use of human volunteer resources IMHO. Regards, Ronald. > > Technically since I was using PC-BSD, and was a committer for that > project > I had no real dire need to reach out to FreeBSD about the issue. I was > simply trying to help anyone else who might be encountering the same > issue > trying to use stock FreeBSD because it was a simple backport. If my > effort > had turned out to be more fruitful I would have spent more time pursuing > tickets, diffs, or whatever to get more things back-ported when I found > them. I am not sure where the breakdown was which did not allow that to > happen. Anyways I don't want to bikeshed, or anything but I just wanted > to > point out how I think having more drivers, and firmware in ports could be > helpful to enhance compatibility for end users. > > Having a separate port for legacy drm could definitely make things easier > to providing installation options for end users, and automating the post > install action chosen in TrueOS, GhostBSD, and future derivative projects > tailored for the desktop use case. For example for TrueOS we boot the > installer in failsafe mode with either VESA, or SCFB depending on whether > or not BIOS, or EFI is booted. Then we could simply make a checkbox for > legacy intel, or skylake + to install the correct package then the module > path for either driver can more or less remain the same. Eventually with > something like devmatch maybe that can even be fully automatic. > > Joe Maloney > > On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 10:23 AM, Daniel Eischen > wrote: > >> On Thu, 31 May 2018, Konstantin Belousov wrote: >> >> On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 08:34:44AM +0100, Johannes Lundberg wrote: >>> >>> We're not replacing anything. We are moving the older drm1 and drm2 >>> from >>>> kernel to ports to make it easier for the majority of the users to >>>> load >>>> the >>>> correct driver without conflicts. >>>> >>> >>> You do understand that you increase your maintainence load by this >>> move. >>> dev/drm and dev/drm2 use KPIs which cannot be kept stable even in >>> stable >>> branches, so you will need to chase these updates. >>> >> >> I agree. One argument previously made was that it's easier >> to maintain in ports. One data point from me - I rarely >> update my ports, I update my OS much more frequently. In >> fact, some times my ports get so out of date I just >> (take off and) nuke /usr/local (from orbit, it's the only >> way to be sure). >> >> Also, are we trying to solve a problem by moving drm[2] to >> ports that won't be a problem when base is pkg'ized? If >> drm[2] is a package unto itself, then you don't have this >> problem of ports conflicting with it, at least not so >> much. You can either not install the base drm[2] package >> or deinstall it to make way for a conflicting port. Once >> drm[2] is pkg rm'd, it's not going to be reinstalled >> again when you update the base OS. >> >> And don't we have the same problem with sendmail and a >> few other base services? >> >> -- >> DE >> >> _______________________________________________ >> freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list >> https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current >> To unsubscribe, send any mail to >> "freebsd-current-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >> > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-current-unsubscribe@freebsd.org"