From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Mar 29 20:20:50 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F4DC106564A for ; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 20:20:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from amvandemore@gmail.com) Received: from mail-bw0-f54.google.com (mail-bw0-f54.google.com [209.85.214.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9F358FC12 for ; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 20:20:49 +0000 (UTC) Received: by bwz12 with SMTP id 12so578870bwz.13 for ; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 13:20:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=fqea3nL4S3bv25PM5FjYuWAZR1zDj3n8EpT8+iwlaEc=; b=ncm4zr+g4iAdKw/UG4WMvt6S+cy4dsuvEvgqHwY7h7PvsNNFBeo9fi3IHHB7VUOlhU YzqE8WH3FUL8fi49ilzoeMtDkfMw8ttrXuO4QmrioYiLNl+lzzzGlcTwgu2Ic1LP7Hri NxYwb0p3obtLSszfZwrwKS6ft4UyRDqkIo8JE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; b=XMPxhRB16Qfnq68kCRrEAZ5rl1ovR5mCfE7zRd4uyk6LAN+zKdEPShBFcYOsEvMfQs J99R5zfKB4Z/TcnPbyMOsQHzysWd5azcJOIggtaCYVtdXeX3V4LpWFB+SZSpkWK0q+/U 6lMAswp7cKOWgdZibByPlh1l0YFr1GTyKHgfM= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.19.6 with SMTP id y6mr264676bka.159.1301430048571; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 13:20:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.118.200 with HTTP; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 13:20:48 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4351D0CD39E5FC00C9A55C6C@utd71538.local> References: <20110329013223.ddca7453.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> <1301419646.71335.123.camel@xenon> <87B0CCF2B38381F29EE67BA4@utd71538.local> <4351D0CD39E5FC00C9A55C6C@utd71538.local> Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 15:20:48 -0500 Message-ID: From: Adam Vande More To: Paul Schmehl Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Jason Hsu , freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, Michal Varga Subject: Re: Best way to switch from Linux to BSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 20:20:50 -0000 On Tue, Mar 29, 2011 at 2:57 PM, Paul Schmehl wrote: > Or just follow the instructions. If people really find that difficult >> I'm not sure any OS is going to be the answer long term. If you do >> enough computer use you'll have to follow instructions at some point. >> >> http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/desktop-browser >> s.html >> >> Imagine that. And yet you can find numerous posts in questions from > people who struggle with it. Must be stupid people then, huh? I'll let you answer that. > > Java is a different matter. Handbook should be updated to use the iced >> tea plugin since the other java plugin doesn't work on new FF plus it's >> other deficiencies. >> >> > At least you're willing to admit there have been some deficiencies.... And yet I was already proven wrong on that point. > Comparing Ubuntu and FreeBSD is a false choice and if you want a rough > equivalent of ubuntu, use PCBSD. I don't agree with what you say is so > hard, but there are options to take most of that overhead away. > Can we at least agree that the OP found it hard? Could we further agree > that he's not the first one to encounter problems? > What's so hard about PCBSD? > > Sure FreeBSD isn't hard for those of us who have used it for years, but > seriously, to expect a newbie to just roll the OS out, get a desktop up and > running, install a functional flash and java without encountering any > difficult issues is a bit unrealistic, don't you think? > Depends on what you mean by newbie. Someone who's an experienced *nix person it shouldn't be that hard at all. Coming from a Windows background or someone that thinks gnome is ubuntu yeah it probably a real shock to the system. However the fact that they are here means they are willing to learn. If you aren't, it's not the thing for you. That's why my desktop OS is now a Mac. Because when I have to attend a > meeting using Adobe Connect (which I will doing next week), I can't do that > in a FreeBSD desktop without a *lot* of work and tweaking, if at all. When > I need to do a remote session with a vendor to fix yet-another-problem on a > stupid Windows server, I need Java to work flawlessly with Go To My PC. It > may or may not do that on FreeBSD. No, it's not FreeBSD's "fault", but who > really gives a damn when it needs to work. All those are your problems, not FreeBSD ones because I can assure they work. For example, promox uses a web java applet to control it's VNC connections. I use it without issue all the time. Not including compile time, it took like 6 minutes to install and test. And in response to Doug: Once again, comparing Ubuntu to FreeBSD is a false choice. Use Debian <==> FreeBSD, Ubuntu <==> PCBSD and you'll see the overhead of running such a system swings the other way. Getting a current version of KDE running properly on Debian is no small feat, whereas typically on FreeBSD it's just a compile away. -- Adam Vande More