From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Mar 17 09:31:30 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F07F25FF88 for ; Tue, 17 Mar 2020 09:31:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from SRS0=XYX3=5C=perdition.city=julien@bebif.be) Received: from orval.bbpf.belspo.be (orval.bbpf.belspo.be [193.191.208.90]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48hSbg39F2z4XGZ for ; Tue, 17 Mar 2020 09:31:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from SRS0=XYX3=5C=perdition.city=julien@bebif.be) Received: from x1 (unknown [77.109.101.182]) by orval.bbpf.belspo.be (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 577851D4FC10; Tue, 17 Mar 2020 10:31:24 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2020 10:31:22 +0100 From: Julien Cigar To: Victor Sudakov Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Technological advantages over Linux Message-ID: <20200317093122.GB1183@x1> References: <20200215141238.GY1879@aurora.gregv.net> <20200316110246.GB95052@admin.sibptus.ru> <20200316114638.GD1410@belspo> <20200317050226.GC19098@admin.sibptus.ru> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20200317050226.GC19098@admin.sibptus.ru> X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 48hSbg39F2z4XGZ X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of SRS0=XYX3=5C=perdition.city=julien@bebif.be designates 193.191.208.90 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=SRS0=XYX3=5C=perdition.city=julien@bebif.be X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.07 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.63)[-0.633,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[perdition.city]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[90.208.191.193.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.10.0]; IP_SCORE(-3.04)[ip: (-9.01), ipnet: 193.191.192.0/19(-4.50), asn: 2611(-1.65), country: BE(-0.02)]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[julien@perdition.city,SRS0=XYX3=5C=perdition.city=julien@bebif.be]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:2611, ipnet:193.191.192.0/19, country:BE]; MID_RHS_NOT_FQDN(0.50)[]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[julien@perdition.city,SRS0=XYX3=5C=perdition.city=julien@bebif.be]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2020 09:31:30 -0000 On Tue, Mar 17, 2020 at 12:02:26PM +0700, Victor Sudakov wrote: > Julien Cigar wrote: > > > > > > > > The insanity of systemd is a large part of what convinced me > > > > to migrate all my personal machines from GNU/Linux to FreeBSD > > > > a couple of years ago. > > > > > > I've just come across two related things which may convince me to > > > migrate some machines from FreeBSD to Debian. > > > > > > 1. On Debian, you can run several instances of php-fpm with different > > > PHP versions in them. > > > > > > 2. On Debian, you can install and run several versions of PostgreSQL > > > simultaneously thanks to the pg_createcluster/pg_lsclusters/... > > > infrastructure. > > > > > > All that from standard packages, without manual compiling and tweaking, > > > jails etc, with minimal effort. > > > > that's true, but once you setup a dedicated Poudriere machine, > > I do have a dedicated Poudriere machine. It can *build* different > versions and combinations of PHP/whatever (even that not always unless > you build separate -z sets with different make.conf files), > unfortunately you cannot *install* them simultaneously. > > > that all > > your deployments are happening in jails, > > *All" deployments in jails is an overkill. > why? jails are so lightweight and are created almost instantly.. > Using jails will be especially counterproductive in case of PostgreSQL > because you will not be able to do smart things like > "pg_update --link --old-datadir XXX --new-datadir YYY". there are workarounds, see 20190829 un ports/UPDATING for an example. > > > that you use some CMS (like > > SaltStack), and that everything is based on ZFS it's a *lot* easier to > > maintain on the long term, and you have a lot of flexibility. I think > > I don't quite agree with you. Keeping multiple jails in an updated > state, and building multiple Poudriere sets (combination of packages) > for all your service jails is a huge administrative overhead best > avoided when not absolutely necessary. that's what I'm doing here and it's perfectly manageable (with SaltStack).. > > > > > I have to deal with some very old (15+ years) shit at work that isn't > > updated but has to be accessible (webapps) (don't ask) and thanks to > > jails and things like rctl I could stil use that latest -RELEASE while > > isolating the old shit in 10.x-RELEASE jails. Try to do that with > > Linux.. (I don't say it's impossible but it would require a lot more > > work IMHO) > > That's a different matter when the use of jails is justified. However, > for having nice and supported php72 and php73 packages simultaneously > you don't need such security measures. After all, FreeBSD has learned to > have different versions of Python. > > PS Debian's pg_*cluster framework rocks! > > -- > Victor Sudakov, VAS4-RIPE, VAS47-RIPN > 2:5005/49@fidonet http://vas.tomsk.ru/ -- Julien Cigar Belgian Biodiversity Platform (http://www.biodiversity.be) PGP fingerprint: EEF9 F697 4B68 D275 7B11 6A25 B2BB 3710 A204 23C0 No trees were killed in the creation of this message. However, many electrons were terribly inconvenienced.