From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Tue Jun 20 18:22:22 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFF94D9EB70 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2017 18:22:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from manu@bidouilliste.com) Received: from mail.blih.net (mail.blih.net [212.83.177.182]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.blih.net", Issuer "mail.blih.net" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C72F06A7C9; Tue, 20 Jun 2017 18:22:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from manu@bidouilliste.com) Received: from mail.blih.net (mail.blih.net [212.83.177.182]) by mail.blih.net (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id dc50a986; Tue, 20 Jun 2017 20:22:18 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=bidouilliste.com; h=date :from:to:cc:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=mail; bh=amQ7LpKH6knF64uIVqhmW8CmyF4=; b=WV9mZ1YbdpXlHldH0mkoJtkqocFg 2VDEwF6BXm9a9oKNW89XFC3nV9vsnSGHKsTetBpoLbzpimkBmnXVV9t9FmuTXwfu EkRtNUI5apCYq0rWu527eCGO/1zGcKg7wJalWPA/iWRkjHAM6uxnZqGd0m0EjEBq Xwb4J2rYxbT9T7c= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=bidouilliste.com; h=date :from:to:cc:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; q=dns; s= mail; b=TYpYW3xJOOPxvRvEIGnYAbC/Vk7YfMHd7Yep/YNraFIwmIKsI+StR10i D6yrPjaF+eU97MXaLQjoAtq/a813Z+dHFeok6chOFXLyoJ4+XjtG+lq6wwK3ueCV 8kp4kApjcUfKc1gItU9j2eOgWPcEWpWlUHugJlkG13J4ZxUiIJI= Received: from knuckles.blih.net (ip-54.net-82-216-203.roubaix.rev.numericable.fr [82.216.203.54]) by mail.blih.net (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPSA id eb5017a8 TLS version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO; Tue, 20 Jun 2017 20:22:18 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2017 20:22:17 +0200 From: Emmanuel Vadot To: Joel Dahl Cc: Michael Gmelin , Jeremie Le Hen , Baptiste Daroussin , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: rtools were deemed almost unused 15 years ago... Message-Id: <20170620202217.8ddf0bae0d3dbe7063549006@bidouilliste.com> In-Reply-To: <20170620171744.GA72667@ymer.vnode.se> References: <20170620111136.fz5ovfa4imm3p4hj@ivaldir.net> <20170620155954.150dedc5@bsd64.grem.de> <20170620171744.GA72667@ymer.vnode.se> X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.5.1 (GTK+ 2.24.31; amd64-portbld-freebsd12.0) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2017 18:22:22 -0000 On Tue, 20 Jun 2017 19:17:44 +0200 Joel Dahl wrote: > On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 03:59:54PM +0200, Michael Gmelin wrote: > > > > > > On Tue, 20 Jun 2017 13:11:37 +0200 > > Baptiste Daroussin wrote: > > > > > On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 12:25:46PM +0200, Jeremie Le Hen wrote: > > > > Hey folks, > > > > > > > > I remember when I was still barely out of my teenagehood, people > > > > were mostly using ssh/scp while rtools (rsh, rlogin, ... for the > > > > youngsters) were left in place as a courtesy for legacy production > > > > systems still relying it on them. > > > > > > > > Fast forward to 2017 (so yes, 15 years later), stack-clash [1] > > > > sorely reminds us that suid binaries are an attack surface. I don't > > > > even need to mention that it's a healthy engineering practice to > > > > remove unused code, both from a maintenance and security > > > > perspective. > > > > > > > > Therefore, I hereby propose to remove rtools from the base system. > > > > I acknowledge this will likely cause troubles for a handful of > > > > people who are still relying on it for good or bad reasons. But the > > > > flipside is that the attack surface of millions of FreeBSD > > > > installed out there will be reduced. > > > > > > > > The proposed roadmap is: > > > > - disable from the build on head and let it soak for one month > > > > - remove rtools from the base. > > > > > > > > What do you guys think? Any preferred color for the bikeshed? :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [1] https://www.qualys.com/2017/06/19/stack-clash/stack-clash.txt > > > > > > Yeah! > > > > > > Is telnetd part of your list? > > > > As long as the telnet(1) client stays in I'm all for it. > > +1. Please keep the telnet client. It's something I expect be part of the base > system utilities. I use it all the time. > > -- > Joel Time to learn nc(1), I'm still fighting to use nc(1) insteal of telnet (1) because of musle memory but removing it will help me make the switch. I honestly don't see any valid reason to keep telnet in the tree. -- Emmanuel Vadot