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Date:      Wed, 27 Mar 2002 23:37:58 -0800
From:      Terry Lambert <tlambert2@mindspring.com>
To:        Gregory Sutter <gsutter@zer0.org>
Cc:        freebsd-chat@freebsd.org
Subject:   Re: processor question
Message-ID:  <3CA2C856.7CAB35DA@mindspring.com>
References:  <OE100msHHbbgCzQ50pF00005549@hotmail.com> <3CA248F6.3ACA39B@mindspring.com> <20020328040250.GB507@klapaucius.zer0.org>

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Gregory Sutter wrote:
> On 2002-03-27 14:34 -0800, Terry Lambert <tlambert2@mindspring.com> wrote:
> > I always love to see the "Energy Star" logo come up on boot on
> > my machines.  It means that it took three times as much energy
> > to manufacture them as they would have additioanlly used during
> > their entire operational life, had they not been "Energy Star"
> > -ified.  I guess some people just like to pay extra for their
> > electricity so that they can pay for it up front.
> 
> Terry,
> 
> Could you explain why Energy Star certified machines take thrice
> as much energy to manufacture?  I've never heard about that.
> Thanks.

To make more efficient hardware, you have to use different industrial
processes.  Among other things, it takes a comparatively much larger
amount of water, and the purification process is much more elaborate.

Ignoring the amount of additional pollution caused by the need for
higher tolerances in processing, and the additional components for
things like monitors so they can go into a "hibernate" mode, which
takes more energy than if the thing were actually turned off, since
the electronics have to monitor for signal suggenly appearing...

The point in fact is that it takes more energy to produce an "Energy
Star Compliant" piece of hardware than a non-compliant piece of
hardware.

Now factor in that the operational lifetime of a computer is on the
order of two years... then if it takes more energy to make something
compliant than it does to make a non-compliant version, AND the
difference in energy consumption over the operation lifetime between
the two is *less* than the additional amount of energy... it doesn't
take a genius to do the math.

Computers and home electronics are about a factor of 5 and 3,
respectively, and it's taken a lot of work to get to those
multipliers... before, they were even worse; the first "Energy
Star Ally" products would have to have operational lifetimes on
the order of 2 or 3 centuries.  It's only *very recently* that
we've been able to break even on things like clothes dryers, and
the rate of improvement has been slowing exponentially.

When you talk about things like refridgerators, washing machines,
and other appliances with much longer operational lifetimes, then
the energy costs start to put it into the black again.

The funny thing is that this whole thing is to try to reduce the
overall pollution, but the overall pollution doesn't really go
down: it's just visible at the manufacturing time, rather than at
consumption time.  So it's a net PR win.

It's like paper vs. plastic bags in the supermarket: paper in fact
does not biodegrade significantly in landiflls, because the microbes
necessary to biodegrade double-walled plant cell based material are
aerobic, and require air to function (this is why your top soil is
only the top few feet, rather than going down a kilometer in some
places, as you would expect if all processes could occur equally at
any depth).

On the other hand, the plastic used in the plastic bags you get at
the grocery can be (and are) actively recycled into the plasciscine
park and bus benches you see around.  Plastic also degrades
degrades significantly in sunlight (ever left a black garbage bag
of leaves out in the sun for too long a period?)... but of course,
so would wood-pulp based paper bags, if some idiot didn't bury them
far enough down that normal processes couldn't operate on them.

Another incredibly amusing "anti pollution" measure is oxygenated
fuels.  Any engine manufactured since 1981 has an oxygen sensor,
so while oxygenated fuels work on behicles before 1981, they make
vehicles after that kick out significantly more ozone, and drop
their fuel mileage dsignifcantly, causing then to require more
fuel.  If you don't believe me, ask the University of Colorado.

It's amazing what lemmings people are, isn't it?

8-).

-- Terry "Johnny Horizon" Lambert

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