From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Tue Jul 3 14:56:23 2018 Return-Path: <owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org> Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB4A61027566 for <freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org>; Tue, 3 Jul 2018 14:56:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lists@eitanadler.com) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (mailman.ysv.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::50:5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5145285081 for <freebsd-arch@freebsd.org>; Tue, 3 Jul 2018 14:56:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lists@eitanadler.com) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id 151ED1027564; Tue, 3 Jul 2018 14:56:23 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6D9A1027563 for <arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org>; Tue, 3 Jul 2018 14:56:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lists@eitanadler.com) Received: from mail-yw0-x233.google.com (mail-yw0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c05::233]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 89DD985080 for <arch@freebsd.org>; Tue, 3 Jul 2018 14:56:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lists@eitanadler.com) Received: by mail-yw0-x233.google.com with SMTP id r3-v6so792410ywc.5 for <arch@freebsd.org>; Tue, 03 Jul 2018 07:56:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=eitanadler.com; s=0xdeadbeef; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=yw4IUA3EkcNXmKbBuvVzRraQPcBVld/aMZzl8Zw0yig=; b=TOCPYnZIPQwLNGXD0GSKE0Y5E8WjQyH7ADyRytr2OzOiRZgg4IvtHutW6vdCjUevgj ZsILgC3Ns50tsLNrouS9mYI2lTGX8CqzcahQ38uO7UkV4OAJSp8J90kODlkuHQIKZwrU /Wdof+mQ5Dkw+U0orByDoVvTSJbeqcsCBojSg= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=yw4IUA3EkcNXmKbBuvVzRraQPcBVld/aMZzl8Zw0yig=; b=PBtVuoWSvi6he+VIeRt94MPnoSO6COoEZB2VOWiRLf0/Cj1K2kdG8z8iEBSZ/pWe50 f+70et4SJbCr0D+gUy8e6Fk+DI+Vl4KlkJdh8fJexsVgGLx+48bBzxzI9p2AhWAm4zem Xo1kLdnkW1xddqZ0xBc4DsdhZCd627AotTXeUuHVxRuzRl5hi7eW8VLFItpYu6ThYjZj /R7Q4WQ2eyD33oeOW8sa6XFKPpcUJVSVLbhblCE3fm9BNHpAM3dwLbgThEIKpd3fNkld mztYls9YdNaJqFRBdiUdbkfxobuCTZaw9TLZfbIEVOl3JtzxksxH7498OXqb1LiFCKWf IjdA== X-Gm-Message-State: APt69E3xbVPtPIovaXNayBdwDp06rl6IGfvXSBXjXvRkOXWvRJAMVwcY R935A0TkdoWj+ooeFcwo1hMHsrCaiw75gbpwBBTdcUpy X-Google-Smtp-Source: AAOMgpecEAPfRB4PTJQg7BgNJQvVoLdhxkgKy6pDIwfi7zMl6gvn49wmpog1cei8FkEbBMXrksLJuldcurCw0JLzmqw= X-Received: by 2002:a81:92ce:: with SMTP id j197-v6mr8961993ywg.37.1530629781271; Tue, 03 Jul 2018 07:56:21 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a25:870e:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Tue, 3 Jul 2018 07:55:50 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <201807031445.w63EjJmF038596@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> References: <CAF6rxgnqEkgq4_FaZasL1z3vx0r1jOG0WGrdnMAXFig+yu3WpQ@mail.gmail.com> <201807031445.w63EjJmF038596@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> From: Eitan Adler <lists@eitanadler.com> Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2018 07:55:50 -0700 Message-ID: <CAF6rxgn+EGtLeNg4x_jtcmO_CQ8x5As9ah+YT4+g3RRf1JdfHw@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: xstr, mkstr To: "Rodney W. Grimes" <freebsd-rwg@pdx.rh.cn85.dnsmgr.net> Cc: "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" <arch@freebsd.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture <freebsd-arch.freebsd.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/options/freebsd-arch>, <mailto:freebsd-arch-request@freebsd.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-arch/> List-Post: <mailto:freebsd-arch@freebsd.org> List-Help: <mailto:freebsd-arch-request@freebsd.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-arch>, <mailto:freebsd-arch-request@freebsd.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2018 14:56:24 -0000 On 3 July 2018 at 07:45, Rodney W. Grimes <freebsd-rwg@pdx.rh.cn85.dnsmgr.net> wrote: >> On 24 June 2018 at 02:51, Eitan Adler <lists@eitanadler.com> wrote: >> > Why are these tools in base? As far as I could tell these tools are >> > un-used in the build process and otherwise specialized tools. Is there >> > any reason we still have them in the toolchain or in base? >> >> Anyone? They don't cause acute problems, but having specialized and >> specific tools like this don't seem like they belong. > > What appears to be unused or specialized to one user can be > very differeent to another. It is best to keep an open mind > that there are many very diverse users of BSD. <snark> I absolutely agree with you! I did not know much about their history, beyond them being used in low-memory environments. In fact, I agree with you so much so that I think that before doing anything about them, I should email an appropriate list to find out more about them. Perhaps arch@ is a good list? hackers@ might also be good, but tends to have less of a reply-rate. </snark> > "As far as I can tell" needs to be a bit stronger, Agreed. But before doing work we should first make sure that the work will be productive. > have you > removed them from the system and had an exp run done to make > sure they are not used? I have locally built a system without them and built several ports. This is certainly not an exp-run, but want to hold off on filing for an exp-run before this conversation about their usefulness is complete. -- Eitan Adler