From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 17 23:55:18 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 661A7106564A for ; Tue, 17 Jan 2012 23:55:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from feld@feld.me) Received: from mwi1.coffeenet.org (unknown [IPv6:2607:f4e0:100:300::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D8108FC15 for ; Tue, 17 Jan 2012 23:55:18 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=feld.me; s=blargle; h=In-Reply-To:Message-Id:From:Mime-Version:Date:References:Subject:To:Content-Type; bh=otmAqowD8uWzzC8ogT6QR/TJljQuRd1nKLJEi2nh3Is=; b=Wep3u5zRqiq+jH1226OuWEUnau7BnB5hLGyz4YzbNspK/bUU9bKbtiOTH9x0q+e/IJU7m48+GWkzljkpgT0zqZfvHhj+GAZSF7ye9ksa+dW4xdYRMnxCtTSn79OcNSK7; Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=mwi1.coffeenet.org) by mwi1.coffeenet.org with esmtp (Exim 4.77 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1RnIs0-0003z3-Gx for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 17 Jan 2012 17:55:17 -0600 Received: from feld@feld.me by mwi1.coffeenet.org (Archiveopteryx 3.1.4) with esmtpsa id 1326844510-2798-2797/5/3; Tue, 17 Jan 2012 23:55:10 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <4F15B1AA.4020400@my.gd> <4F15C520.6090200@freebsd.org> <20120117222512.GB509@over-yonder.net> Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2012 17:55:10 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 From: Mark Felder Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20120117222512.GB509@over-yonder.net> User-Agent: Opera Mail/11.61 (FreeBSD) X-SA-Score: -1.0 Subject: Re: FreeBSD has serious problems with focus, longevity, and lifecycle X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2012 23:55:18 -0000 On Tue, 17 Jan 2012 16:25:12 -0600, Matthew D. Fuller wrote: > On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 02:50:08PM -0600 I heard the voice of > Mark Felder, and lo! it spake thus: >> >> I've seen several other things hit -STABLE right after the freeze >> ended early January which surprise me that they weren't included in >> -RELEASE and we didn't have another RC. > > You mean the 9.0-RELEASE that's scheduled to be done (after having > already slipped a month) at the beginning of Sept 2011? At some point > (well before those add'l patches you're talking about, IMO) you have > to STOP and release the damn thing already. > > Yeah, but how much sense does it make to do a -RELEASE with critical bugs? For example, gmultipath guarantees a panic on various hardware just by breaking a path. This was fixed in a full rewrite discussed this summer and publicized in November. Now anyone with shiny 9.0 (or even 8.2) running gmultipath risks a panic. The fix IS the rewrite. But it's s total rewrite and so patching that onto 9.0 as errata doesn't really make sense (rewrite adds features too), so now the choices for a stable gmultipath is -STABLE or patiently waiting for 9.1. So yeah, 9.0 slipped hard. Perhaps it should have slipped a bit further until blockers like gmultipath and the cdrom/CAM stuff were fully addressed. But it's impossible to release 100% bug free software.... where exactly *do* you draw the line? :-/ I certainly would not be better than anyone else at managing any portion of this project. I'm just glad I have the ability to find and apply fixes myself when necessary.