From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Sep 16 19:53:26 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8155106566C for ; Sun, 16 Sep 2012 19:53:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adrian.chadd@gmail.com) Received: from mail-pb0-f54.google.com (mail-pb0-f54.google.com [209.85.160.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97B588FC08 for ; Sun, 16 Sep 2012 19:53:26 +0000 (UTC) Received: by pbbrp2 with SMTP id rp2so8728294pbb.13 for ; Sun, 16 Sep 2012 12:53:26 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=Iffuut99ja9X1y1OKYZCIKaMgV9gYoQ1XJ6tozRdfK4=; b=H//88sJiDr9Z6Jwc8IbGoabllcO5lWzsTu6lwo+kP1C8DuxfwdkGmrytR6ap0j/G7N uGB6uZ+2rtfvqGhBTf57jxN+b3eZpv8oZqhV024VTsEW4u0v3lAeuyKjMDepNOMBAVXf N8RvRYT8y2Ma8SZbgmAHbitdf9zO8nEyBD/21rqZoflLI1YNMkJ7f+kmWne19R0V5f8m euus1RmToW3+nnUJT25otOhDvnmRoNANLg0FD3npmUPeXbzdBv0oJ95vZexgdAwr+Q7r IfG+m5HNmCYAB34Ro5ljqlClFYK+XJ11z2gqQvBCMxqrQaGEao8Ee2JfShNxMzdwKJX5 D1sQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.66.90.38 with SMTP id bt6mr15808295pab.53.1347825205767; Sun, 16 Sep 2012 12:53:25 -0700 (PDT) Sender: adrian.chadd@gmail.com Received: by 10.68.36.106 with HTTP; Sun, 16 Sep 2012 12:53:25 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <51B48339-D1FA-49CD-B582-1C58855B024E@bsdimp.com> References: <20120916053523.GJ37286@deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua> <51B48339-D1FA-49CD-B582-1C58855B024E@bsdimp.com> Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2012 12:53:25 -0700 X-Google-Sender-Auth: gb7Ct0XfTfuZtrNPNOCiNhm2b4I Message-ID: From: Adrian Chadd To: Warner Losh Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: Konstantin Belousov , Eitan Adler , arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Fallout from the CVS discussion X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2012 19:53:26 -0000 My personal take on all of this is that it's all very badly "directioned." As in - personally, I think CVS as a package is fine. However: * I'd like to first see a roadmap for doing this - eg, "we're adding a NO_CVS option; CVS will become a port, you can migrate to the CVS port with your next build/installworld"; * if you're that way inclined, backport the NO_CVS option (if it doesn't exist) to -9; * Ensure all of the stuff that uses CVS is migrated beforehand, and publish all of that effort somewhere; * Make sure you're doing it for reasons that aren't coming across as "GPL free! at all costs!" The last is the most important to me. I am beginning to feel that the push for clang, no CVS/RCS, migration to BSD licenced tools, etc is for reasons other than _a sound set of technical and long-term goal reasons_. You run the risk of falling afoul for the same kinds of stupid crap that GPL zealots fall afoul of - you first pick a political/philosophical stance, then you base all your technical decisions on that. Then stir in a bit of cognitive dissonance and suddenly you're coming up with justifications to remove things - when the underlying honest reason is "because it's not BSD licenced." Now, to stir up trouble, I hereby suggest that if you're going to remove CVS because it's no longer used for FreeBSD's project stuff, we should obviously import subversion into the base because _it_ is being used for the FreeBSD project stuff. Think of why you're not doing that (likely because it's already a port/package and there's just as much inertia to introduce something to the base system as there is removing it and making it a port) and see if that helps refocus your reasons for and against doing things. 2c, Adrian