From owner-freebsd-current Thu May 23 02:34:41 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA21609 for current-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 02:34:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from epprod.elsevier.co.uk (epprod.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.222.35]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA21583 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 02:34:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from snowdon.elsevier.co.uk (snowdon.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.164]) by epprod.elsevier.co.uk (8.6.13/8.6.12) with ESMTP id KAA28350 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 10:33:28 +0100 Received: from cadair.elsevier.co.uk (actually host cadair) by snowdon with SMTP (PP); Thu, 23 May 1996 10:33:15 +0100 Received: (from dpr@localhost) by cadair.elsevier.co.uk (8.6.12/8.6.12) id KAA17769; Thu, 23 May 1996 10:32:50 +0100 From: Paul Richards Message-Id: <199605230932.KAA17769@cadair.elsevier.co.uk> Subject: Re: editors To: nawaz921@cs.uidaho.edu (faried nawaz) Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 10:32:50 +0100 (BST) Cc: chuckr@glue.umd.edu, freebsd-current@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199605230746.AAA11558@selway.cs.uidaho.edu> from "faried nawaz" at May 23, 96 00:46:02 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply to faried nawaz who said > > I've never used `ee' in the install, but if I'm correct, it's used for > post-install configuration (am I right?). Why not give the user a choice > of an editor (from the packages) before it is needed/used for editing > purposes? It becomes the default editor for everyone period, something I don't think is a good idea at all. > > I personally don't like the idea of a "newbie" editor. Ever read those > jokes about Linux "sysadmins" and pico? I'm not sure I would like to > hear anything similar about FreeBSD from any quarter. There's a bit of a philosophy rift between those who are trying to make FreeBSD a mainstream popular OS and those that really don't care whether newbies get scared off by vi or not and just want FreeBSD to be the best Unix there is in the marketplace. Personally, I don't give a damn if some newbie gets scared off Unix because it doesn't have notepad. As I've already said, if they can't get over that hurdle then they can forget it because the rest of the stuff they have to learn is much scarier. I think that some people have been hacking Unix too long and think it's easy and are assuming that if we replace vi with something simpler unix will suddenly be more accessible. I think that's a fundamentally flawed opinion. It'll just delay things marginally, so, they've got this nice "type away" editor but they're going to quickly realise that adding users, configuring DNS/NFS and other network stuff, getting XFree86 working, setting up the filesystems etc etc etc is rather more difficult than clicking on the word icon and starting work. Given that all these editors have always existed it must amount to something that no-one who has stuck with Unix actually use anything other than vi or emacs. I've got no problem with providing alternative editors and I'll concede that vi is not a good idea for installation or newbies will never get FreeBSD up in the first place BUT I'm really against anything but vi becoming the default editor post-installation for *everyone*. I'm positive that *most* FreeBSD users are already unix hackers and making every one of them change the EDITOR variable is a damn pain. I'm not looking forward to the complaints from sites I've installed FreeBSD boxes in when all their die hard unix users suddenly find their EDITOR is now ee or even pico! Incidentally, I made the suggestion on -chat that the EDITOR setting become an installation option. -- Paul Richards. Originative Solutions Ltd. (Netcraft Ltd. contractor) Elsevier Science TIS online journal project. Email: p.richards@elsevier.co.uk Phone: 0370 462071 (Mobile), +44 (0)1865 843155