From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 6 17:34:29 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from sr14.nsw-remote.bigpond.net.au (sr14.nsw-remote.bigpond.net.au [24.192.3.29]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D21E314EE2 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 17:34:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from a.reilly@lake.com.au) Received: from areilly.bpc-users.org (CPE-24-192-49-170.nsw.bigpond.net.au [24.192.49.170]) by sr14.nsw-remote.bigpond.net.au (Pro-8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA28219 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 12:34:20 +1100 (EDT) Received: (qmail 76313 invoked by uid 1000); 7 Dec 1999 01:34:19 -0000 From: "Andrew Reilly" Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 12:34:19 +1100 To: Wes Peters Cc: Matthew Dillon , Kris Kennaway , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PCI DMA lockups in 3.2 (3.3 maybe?) Message-ID: <19991207123419.A76129@gurney.reilly.home> References: <199912050514.VAA58998@apollo.backplane.com> <3849FD95.F0434263@softweyr.com> <199912050646.WAA59445@apollo.backplane.com> <384B228D.FFE9728@softweyr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre2i In-Reply-To: <384B228D.FFE9728@softweyr.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, Dec 05, 1999 at 07:42:21PM -0700, Wes Peters wrote: > Software > is created by humans, and humans are fallible, therefore the software > is also fallible. No, that doesn't logically follow. Just because it's possible for humans to make mistakes doesn't mean that it's impossible to do or make something (eventually) without mistakes. Even when formal proof isn't possible (the usual case) careful design, backed up by design-based assertions and tests can produce code that does not have bugs. FreeBSD is a big and complicated thing, but it's (largely) composed of subsystems that can be maintained, designed and tested by individuals. I think that a goal of "surprise at a crash of any sort" isn't unreasonable, and highly desirable. I'll take "right" over "fast", and both over "features" any day. -- Andrew To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message