From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sun Feb 16 22:05:33 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43EC92445F3 for ; Sun, 16 Feb 2020 22:05:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dewayne.geraghty@heuristicsystems.com.au) Received: from hermes.heuristicsystems.com.au (hermes.heuristicsystems.com.au [203.41.22.115]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2560 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "hermes.heuristicsystems.com.au", Issuer "Heuristic Systems Type 4 Host CA" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 48LLlZ2w4Dz4tP4 for ; Sun, 16 Feb 2020 22:05:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dewayne.geraghty@heuristicsystems.com.au) Received: from [10.0.5.3] (noddy.hs [10.0.5.3]) (authenticated bits=0) by hermes.heuristicsystems.com.au (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id 01GM4idl028539 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 17 Feb 2020 09:04:45 +1100 (AEDT) (envelope-from dewayne.geraghty@heuristicsystems.com.au) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=heuristicsystems.com.au; s=hsa; t=1581890685; x=1582495486; bh=5A6pUSEhdjkq1c0Ri1scIacTa1Xb9+pH/9qHK+7JaKo=; h=Subject:To:From:Message-ID:Date; b=SmEoGWoeS7WOZ3mfa/3UGDiG0XijvKAbu3lJDvY6MuhBllokWhfjuWq8k95oaki9L RpF+wqNenRf5SOFrBJsxDk0pCpv1qbaYIjKm1OWY4kqkeM5Q+zmeG7M3EsSw03EiRH 7G68nnlcJ9MsYOyJbC7KR+Gf7pLe5hqlMNGYPlSwu/amuTDFJ65gF X-Authentication-Warning: b3.hs: Host noddy.hs [10.0.5.3] claimed to be [10.0.5.3] Subject: Re: Why is not llvm-config executable included? To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <20200215185821.GV4808@kib.kiev.ua> From: Dewayne Geraghty Autocrypt: addr=dewayne.geraghty@heuristicsystems.com.au; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQFNBFbOsVMBCgDfvi2PspSwoMEtFhF+aFLQKtzSA9f0dhDqthKHESdfbqxvKzhkBjvTJ5Na EgjKoKfoQTh5xuIv3HLhtDo5PeasPgQl9cPJeriqmqlS+UhY5BGYcMc1AO/TX0fsDaQz96ko at3RUW7sff/qPgVzSurk+DV5h866gPdn5Jdjohyl2F1rzRl6dnaAIyg49zlwZOnPHJGKye+B meqUCnPRglhkpNqXR3v1ulbWpfwhdNDvWT82qTG/qsFy/agjJvxwLuEBeoGc1dPWasO8Nztt 0dqf1Lpeg6SX2yJd76WVS4znt88OEbx/QL2PTJ/YtSepS68WaeKuARKPukkU+QXDep0gaLPl /TvU5xAZndNB3rYnpmoLb32pDHlrJbZUVyTMqc3J2EYM6aaizCpg4VEvVpVSqUT4D9MuREhu PeZ3SvEazQARAQABiQF3BB8BCAAhBQJWzrFTFwyAAWHe5yZt8RJL0vaU1MfDto5dBmeFAgcA AAoJEJVk7a1LmFrdy2QJ/AysDdFIMCRiaqEellprZQyEz5I/qZJEi6yRfXH813hhISFz6moh urZYLQ9SRdyMntT8W3Oc4pJc9fF9RSnY0SSQY/arZbrvsv6hKb1KtIK7P5mLS914J9buxEcJ SWeVuOuMA9aCNqg5uMu19pH5pXayORfbv+K7vFPiyllZ64ShUWZJL69vAc/TsbvMrGtG1M4P qyWCOKEiUT93zhVGQoA0aUYjMAZoyvozZCuieo4O8hkPgMz9lka+3bqQBSOB+qO4Iz+CZs0k Lw7Soga6bRqLK86DH99WjTA6Oj1r8Won+j4V9fnTDCVJoSyqdVHLySDv/lHaNu4Ia4AO4i2d shmLw03gOUvoWLJx5X01A5Zio4FvecnpZqQ0Wz5Ph9MiK3lwarfjonTOLeNGd5BpdnHu5VRC fJml7uAYeyKsD8C4tDtEZXdheW5lIEdlcmFnaHR5IDxkZXdheW5lLmdlcmFnaHR5QGhldXJp c3RpY3N5c3RlbXMuY29tLmF1PokBgAQTAQgAKgUCVs6xUwIbIQsLCg0JCAwHCwMCBAgVCgkI CwMCAQUWAwIBAAIeAQIXgAAKCRCVZO2tS5ha3aBzCgCB6n7hpYUJQ1jT6VxXDpo2OB+Vo7/U ajxY3uVd9NibvCQwRirweCFcR8nCMH5AaXxcrR2znKQ2P9xCTwoFF5sureYhsESiE3vbh0Nt 6DCJVLi2hZM0LdPdwaFSCyCewZq7SZh5XonvJr9BC0p90+gR+pqn8DO/4Tv5zgS69KhCa5uz EfJ/RBkHULCthQihh8/Fnkd1gxetB3K8jGMAbg1gWZcSRY/ti+ibWNJd6bBhtKc6b0r/Aq3Q 1Xls39o6MADu9P2zVP5E5Q33+2pVy8D1Z/Yfro7i84NlJPyIuAnt4GYQzBW4e2+aaQeJCcUh Sddio+GY7KOuwHcAEkvojH1tooxbMT+J36end8y7BrXMR+QRFVtlJmAIPrEcdf7bC06MzL8e SW5FjUavan7zIl2Zk6c/M7OfCBLioUfVhha4SA== Message-ID: <0f258cc4-7aae-b757-add0-e44c329c8255@heuristicsystems.com.au> Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2020 09:03:49 +1100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.4.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20200215185821.GV4808@kib.kiev.ua> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-GB Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 48LLlZ2w4Dz4tP4 X-Spamd-Bar: ------- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=heuristicsystems.com.au header.s=hsa header.b=SmEoGWoe; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of dewayne.geraghty@heuristicsystems.com.au designates 203.41.22.115 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=dewayne.geraghty@heuristicsystems.com.au X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-7.45 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; HAS_XAW(0.00)[]; RCVD_DKIM_ARC_DNSWL_MED(-0.50)[]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED(-0.20)[115.22.41.203.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.4.2]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[heuristicsystems.com.au:+]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(-3.25)[ip: (-9.71), ipnet: 203.40.0.0/13(-4.18), asn: 1221(-2.37), country: AU(0.01)]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:1221, ipnet:203.40.0.0/13, country:AU]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[heuristicsystems.com.au:s=hsa]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_MED(-2.00)[heuristicsystems.com.au.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.4.2]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[heuristicsystems.com.au]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2020 22:05:33 -0000 On 16/02/2020 9:27 am, Konstantin Belousov wrote: > One of the reason why llvm in base should not be used as llvm infrastructure > is because llvm API and ABI is not stable across llvm releases, and exposing > that would make compiler updates in stable impossible due to the stable > branches guarantee of ABI stability. I think you're saying - don't build ports in a base (without the llvm port), rather use a separate build jail with llvm port. We used to build all ports in base and ship them to clients. Around FreeBSD6 we started to build within a jailed environment, as we supported i386 & amd64; something we still do. Though I'm concerned that perhaps we should migrate (our jails) back to using gcc where-ever possible, in the hope of avoiding future ABI incompatibility? In my experience replacing a base 'something' with the port of 'something' must be done carefully. (our experience with binutils and libressl, ultimately required removing all base "stuff" and using workarounds like softlinks - a bit messy, but scriptable) Would using gcc, in the build jail, provide better insurance against ABI breakage?