From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sat Aug 3 02:27:18 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D28CA3389 for ; Sat, 3 Aug 2019 02:27:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.135]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mout.kundenserver.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass Class 2 CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 460nx13Ry7z3JKL for ; Sat, 3 Aug 2019 02:27:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from r56.edvax.de ([178.12.36.217]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue012 [212.227.15.167]) with ESMTPA (Nemesis) id 1MCGag-1i335Y0Q78-009SJH; Sat, 03 Aug 2019 04:22:06 +0200 Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2019 04:22:05 +0200 From: Polytropon To: hw Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: thunderbird in German? Message-Id: <20190803042205.550f5903.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <87y30b8h0v.fsf@toy.adminart.net> References: <87o91bw4mx.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <20190731012754.3783a859.freebsd@edvax.de> <878ssc5v3x.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <20190802053434.6babd0d0.freebsd@edvax.de> <87y30b8h0v.fsf@toy.adminart.net> Reply-To: Polytropon Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:UB3kOYBo/rNbrUVn2kkcCh2PnpzahuMoOBVwLmEAPUMxkn0z3C9 OKB+wUZsWbZ6Q7iA06nZSSvwUZnbVmXetbS6iDPvoy/sWI30/+r2R/mNUQpoe4o+7DaDw0A z1h8kf41Eqw6bOpLZ6ojhPC1pmZHItQdy3GpzJF3D7qNe8YsYexDKzPwS+4KJCXwFmYaWPN 1JfTz/N0scF9Jrv9R36Rg== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:iqT8oz+lUE4=:W3JpVJJTYG7+qecDTzz0gk y4ELqzAzz72hO2NR2dE/R7LBrrB31DSI2CStJ1eGEnFsx5TkQCjqC8EZCMyPs7AKfmGswgGem f4+akwJSGuQHC1x9zleCt6y9G6c9JVERQn02ZyyUavjQVij16WKZRPg/xtE1BBLh+JeI81sQS qIEXewvxT2H9xVfarO691lREt7Wi5R/huQZIRgJl6CSTHUXcCJCqBlRA38X7WssxYLUyfHdj9 SQTuObhCwYWBsH5x6AcSmXnc+7+EfegVIoYC+GhbN6t7hCSTLMOI3uHExoCbIAfdCfWdv3EJo gj8JxY0exyfeVf/qvyNXR0SX8spiuwY6YaynvctKVGbGor23RMT0wcJhk5LeDeXHy61ufl/dS xWcYWCnuR6jt6MrNPDqzttbS4ALOl2K7zQA3b2Lncj5piPSDeJKllXY6oz380sxAD9g6+cVrw lPmRVTgOTl7uzOiSDajaeCqpNxsi0qNGyJ82E14+Awaz1eWguz4+ROQ6+QYhkUNd6E4oTkNpN etg8Kal9SFHMWchKOfuvUvaYCb5JfZ4LqaRJat39yy8BH6+ecZAMxo3Ue7MD8x7fpSAJ/O4y7 ymZvPEcJn0lnA+HVmXNw1eap/e+4qGYGD7Zl0LzxjQQek+8vu14O63G9+bV4p4wWW1BadfDVG eNOhDaY8azv1ry31ZYmvGS4AjNHiyJgMiKQXbbHCLlp4zzDqgELZuJcVRiOKEoTVfmVpx3lnh LqWZ+z3p6ubS/BKaocHHqzlrtigeVMC4Tj4UntvYguU+zX3dESYVkDk7s2k= X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 460nx13Ry7z3JKL X-Spamd-Bar: ++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of freebsd@edvax.de has no SPF policy when checking 212.227.126.135) smtp.mailfrom=freebsd@edvax.de X-Spamd-Result: default: False [4.57 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd@edvax.de]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[217.36.12.178.khpj7ygk5idzvmvt5x4ziurxhy.zen.dq.spamhaus.net : 127.0.0.11]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8560, ipnet:212.227.0.0/16, country:DE]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.85)[0.845,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[edvax.de]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MID_CONTAINS_FROM(1.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[135.126.227.212.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[135.126.227.212.rep.mailspike.net : 127.0.0.17]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; IP_SCORE(0.33)[ip: (0.77), ipnet: 212.227.0.0/16(-1.44), asn: 8560(2.31), country: DE(-0.01)] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2019 02:27:18 -0000 On Fri, 02 Aug 2019 22:10:56 +0200, hw wrote: > Polytropon writes: > > > On Fri, 02 Aug 2019 01:22:42 +0200, hw wrote: > >> Polytropon writes: > >> > > > [...] > > > > If I remember correctly, $LANG has precedence over $LC_* if set. > > However, I'm not sure every program conforms to this rule... and > > I'm questioning Mozilla software following established rules and > > consensus. ;-) > > Right, the programmers seem to be stupd kids who can't do anything but > play with dumbphones. My impression is that programmers often don't care. While it has been good practice for decades to use -Wall and its equivalents, it doesn't seem to be important anymore. Compile time errors and warnings are irrelevant just as runtime warnings and errors. You can easily verify this by launching any "modern" Gtk or Qt program from a terminal, say, Firefox, Gimp, and so on. I also see this attitude applies to documentation, which is scattered across the web, in wikis, user pages, discussion forums, outdated project pages and so on. Even program sets intended for professional use such as The SleuthKit have moved their documentation online, which makes it inaccessible (!) in certain circumstances, especially security-related ones where you are not permitted to connect to outside (online) resources. In such a situation, "man mencoder" was really helpful (I had to deal with those special circumstances for a few times, it's not pretty). Churning out new versions and new features often seems to be more important that fixing bugs or working against bad decisions. Doing it right for everyone is impossible, I know, but a certain amount of "good old common sense" should be applied more. :-) > Be careful or we will be called trolls. Nowadays, you just /have/ to > click on all the like buttons regardless how much something sucks; > otherwise you're a troll. I will remember that, so people don't start feeding me. ;-) > > Because it's left to the users to find out how to do "nonstandard" > > things like intending to change the interface language. Because > > all the world only the English always! ;-) > > and right handed, of course Remember that traditional X (and X applications using the XMotif and Xaw / Xaw3d toolkits, if I remember correctly) provides a "/ shaped" mouse pointer (instead of the traditional \ one), and it can be enabled with "xsetroot -cursor_name right_ptr". However, some programs use their own mouse pointer, and it will change as soon as you point into such a window... > But when you use the trackball with your left hand, [...] That's entirely wrong. You don't use a trackball because it does not exist. Everyone uses a mouse (old people) or taps on the screen (young people). ;-) > [...] you suddenly notice > how wrong all the GUIs are designed. The old X programs can have the > scroll bar on the left no problem, but all the new stuff is so great > because it's immature and you have to click the like buttons nonetheless > (even if you can't reach them because they're at odd locations). This is called "to explore". ;-) > >> >> Is this a general problem > >> >> with the language pack or something specific to FreeBSD? > >> > > >> > Not FreeBSD-specific. It's one of the typical problems of > >> > "constant change" when dealing with Mozilla software... :-/ > >> > >> Is there a usable alternative to Thunderbird for an IMAP client? > > > > Yes, Sylpheed is a lightweight and still very convenient and > > usable MUA. It supports IMAP (as well as SMTP and POP3, which > > is so obvious that I don't need to mention it). > > Hm. I'll try that out, thanks. If that is in German, the users can > decide what causes them more confusion: the same program they're used to > in English but German or a new program they've never used, but in German. Sylpheed is in any language you want (English and German verified), depending on what $LC_* says. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...