Date: Sat, 24 Dec 1994 11:28:44 -0800 From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@time.cdrom.com> To: Morgan Davis <mdavis@io.cts.com> Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: A lighter sup -v? Message-ID: <11737.788297324@time.cdrom.com> In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 23 Dec 94 15:18:43 PST." <199412232318.PAA16374@io.cts.com>
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> Hmmm. Would you expect that a full sup about two weeks ago would > result in yesterday's sup (same server) showing about 1800 lines for > 'gnu', of which 98% were "updated" entries and very few "received" > entries? If its a question of "instability", my concern, of course, > is "where". No, I wouldn't. Other things that can make this happen are blowing away your sup control files or somehow changing the date of files on your tree. > Also, perhaps you can clarify the relationship between the regular > "snapshots" and "-current" (via sup) for those who, just recently, got > sup working and now are studying up on "snapshots". A snapshot is simply an attempt to build a semi-release from -current. That's all.. > I'm not gung-ho about having the latest and greatest all the time. > But I do want to keep up with the latest *working* releases. I assume > that's more or less the idea of snapshots. Is there an automated way That's actually a side-effect of snapshots, but if you want to call it the idea, well, I won't argue. It's good marketing.. :-) > BTW, FreeBSD has been a great game for me, replacing Myst and Doom > over the last few weeks. It has all the thrills of an arcade game and > mind-boggling puzzles of an adventure game, and I've dedicated long > hours into the early morning on it. When you figure out how to > get updates, how to build them, and all the other > undocumented-but-critical procedures, it can be a blast. I'm glad you figured that out. Now go for the high score! Write a device driver for something! :-) > (Note, I said "procedures" not "man pages". There should be a FAQ for > common things like how to *really* get sup and pppd to work for a > typical installation. And the FAQs that do exist should at least be > revised to include current info. The kind of "attitude" in many of > the answers is frustrating for those starting with a new FreeBSD I don't think you're suffering from attitude so much as resignation, at least if you're talking to any of the FreeBSD core team members I know. We all know that there needs to be one almost painfully simple entrypoint into the system, and that it should let you do everything from browse `howto' guides like the ones you describe, to actually set up slip or ppp or new users by simple answering a few questions. It should all be tied together with a unified forms interface tool that would allow them to learn the navigational controls once and then focus on system setup from there on out. It should hide 99.9% of the icky details of system administration and maintainance from the user who neither wants to know or cares. Believe me, you're preaching to the choir if you're about to make a case for such a system. We have only one small little problem: Every previous attempt to write this tool/environment has failed. You feel like being the exception to break 7 years of bad luck? :-) We have had more than enouh discussion about it, and everybody is pretty much unanimous in their desire for it, now we just need to find someone with enough free time and few enough prior committments to actually DO it.. Believe me, it's been on my mental `whiteboard' for a LONG time! :-) Jordan
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