From owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Tue May 23 16:08:35 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A69216A4A0; Tue, 23 May 2006 16:08:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from scottl@samsco.org) Received: from pooker.samsco.org (pooker.samsco.org [168.103.85.57]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A905B43D49; Tue, 23 May 2006 16:08:34 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from scottl@samsco.org) Received: from [10.10.3.185] ([69.15.205.254]) (authenticated bits=0) by pooker.samsco.org (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k4NG8OWc009096; Tue, 23 May 2006 10:08:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from scottl@samsco.org) Message-ID: <4473336F.1030900@samsco.org> Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 10:08:15 -0600 From: Scott Long User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20060206 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=F8rgrav?= References: <20060520141209.A2285@free.home.local> <86fyj1kju5.fsf@xps.des.no> <20060523171238.6392afdb@Magellan.Leidinger.net> <867j4clqaj.fsf@xps.des.no> In-Reply-To: <867j4clqaj.fsf@xps.des.no> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=3.8 tests=none autolearn=failed version=3.1.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.1 (2006-03-10) on pooker.samsco.org Cc: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org, Alexander Leidinger , freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Call for testing: emu10kx driver for Creative sound cards X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 16:08:40 -0000 Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote: > Alexander Leidinger writes: > >>Quoting des@des.no (Dag-Erling Smørgrav) (Tue, 23 May 2006 14:26:58 +0200): >> >>>Yuriy Tsibizov writes: >>> >>>>2. Complete mixer support. Some controls that can't fit into OSS >>>>mixer are available as sysctl under debug.emu10kxX. >>> >>>That is not the correct place for it. Please use the device's sysctl >>>context (obtained with device_get_sysctl_ctx()) >> >>This was based upon a suggestion by me. We want to get rid of most >>sound related syscalls (at least those which belong into the realm of >>the user, and not into the realm of the administrator). Until we have >>an application and an interface, we have to life with the sysctls, but >>to let the users know that this is not an interface but a temporary >>workaround, it's put into the debug MIB. I hope we will not ship >>7.0-RELEASE with any such sysctl (any help appreciated). > > > Regardless, device-specific sysctl knobs belong in the individual > device's sysctl context, which automatically places them in the > correct location in the dev tree and automatically destroys them when > the device is destroyed. Please do not create further precedent for > breaking this rule, no matter how good your intentions. > > DES The problem is that Alexander wants these sysctls to only be temporary. Recall that big thread from a month or two ago about treating sysctls as an API, and how there was heavy disagreement over how to define "stable" sysctls that apps could depend on? If a temporary set of sysctls get put under the dev tree, then it risks becoming permanent, which is not what Alexander wants. So, either we need to decide what parts of the sysctl to define as stable, like I asked for in the previous thread, or we need to pretend that it's not a problem that we should address, and let you and Alexander continue to argue over the 'correct place'. Scott