From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Apr 27 18:25:02 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04AD2106566B for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2009 18:25:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from beni@brinckman.info) Received: from lrelay02.edpnet.net (lrelay02.edpnet.net [212.71.1.211]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 779898FC13 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2009 18:25:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from beni@brinckman.info) Received: from bsdaddict.localnet (213.219.164.52.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net [213.219.164.52]) by lrelay02.edpnet.net (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n3RIOwv5023741; Mon, 27 Apr 2009 20:24:58 +0200 From: beni To: Polytropon Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 20:24:53 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.11.2 (FreeBSD/7.2-PRERELEASE; KDE/4.2.2; i386; ; ) References: <200904261706.59497.beni@brinckman.info> <20090426193207.5c27c614.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <20090426193207.5c27c614.freebsd@edvax.de> X-Face: $,~&QrDrInYiH(ZUXjNH_0r4q\`w83!}&; +8c.K[`NnZwV|m$5N{NCkWesaR.9|yqIC[)g=a;93dz2mP7iv)LLzBd;6^Y:=*>@U;_\+4( MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <200904272024.54590.beni@brinckman.info> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.92.1/9292/Mon Apr 27 03:25:00 2009 on lrelay02.edpnet.net X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.4 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=disabled version=3.2.5 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5 (2008-06-10) on lrelay02.edpnet.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Modern FreeBSD Installer? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: beni@brinckman.info List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 18:25:02 -0000 On Sunday 26 April 2009 19:32:07 Polytropon wrote: > On Sun, 26 Apr 2009 17:06:58 +0200, beni wrote: > > Why should a graphical installer have less functionality ? > hasn't been claimed. GUI installer just requires more resources, > more overhead. Why should a GUI need more functionality than a text based installer ? Why can't both have the same functionality ? > > And what is wrong > > with some eye candy ? > > Eye candy is wrong exactly when it reduces functionality > (instead of adding it). For example, if you need more time > for an installation, require a mouse, or can't use your > Braille readout anymore - then it's wrong- Or better: It's > useless. But why should a GUI be less functional ? I don't see why ! > > Guys, please, wake up, we don't live in the 70's anymore > > ! > > That's why FreeBSD is not following strange MICROS~1 concepts > of how to do several things. :-) > > > I'm using pc-bsd. Why ? Cause of the easy and nice installer. It's as > > simple as that. > > You value an operating system by how the installer LOOKS like? > I'm sure you're kidding. :-) > > Honestly: People can't be that stupid. Oh wait... okay, I didn't > say anything. :-) > > The point is - what I would have better said instead of the > previous two paragraphs - a text mode installer LOOKS more > serious. Serious biznis, you know? Servers, and workstations, > and operating system. For work to be done. Lots of work. Ask > people who work as admins, who keep mailservers running, > webservers, application servers. Do they choose the OS by the > amount of eye candy in the INSTALLER? I'm sure they don't. I'm not a sysadmin, indeed. But it should surprise me a lot if a admin who has to, as you say yourself, keep every server running, need to (re)install a lot of servers on a regular basis. Then there is something seriously wrong. It was my believe that a server needs to be kept running, not being reinstalled twice a week (with or without a GUI installer). And so a desktop user has to do it with the prehistoric sysinstall... And I don't value an OS by its installer, but as a desktop user I think I have already done a bit of (re)installations, be it debian, ubuntu, suse, or Micros~1 in different flavors. > > And before anyone says "do it yourself", "get a sponsor" or something > > down those lines : if it is all about choice, why not give the > > people/user the choice ? Now I don't have any choice : sysinstall or > > pc-bsd... > > Or DesktopBSD. :-) > > > I'm for both : text and graphical :-) > > As I explained in an earlier post: If the GUI installer is > (a) not the only way, (b) not an auto-default, (c) does work > well enough even on older hardware and (d) doesn't make things > more complicated, I wouldn't have any problem with it, I would > even use it! Nice to hear it :-) Me too ! > But please note that many users of FreeBSD are scared by the > way other GUI driven installers work. Much time is needed to > do an installation, and there's more emphasize put on how > things look instead of how they work. So I can understand > everyone who says: "When FreeBSD gets a crappy installerjust > like 'Windows' and some Linusi, then I would look around for > another OS that fits my needs." A pc-bsd is installed in what, 5 or 6 clics (if it is that much). Same for windows or ubuntu. Text based installation takes more time i think. Finetuning and installing programs afterwards takes more time, but that is the same for all those OS'es, no ? So I think we will agree to disagree... -- Beni.