From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jan 27 02:23:06 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5875C167 for ; Sun, 27 Jan 2013 02:23:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Received: from wonkity.com (wonkity.com [67.158.26.137]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3F21A5B for ; Sun, 27 Jan 2013 02:23:05 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wonkity.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wonkity.com (8.14.6/8.14.6) with ESMTP id r0R25ivu002784; Sat, 26 Jan 2013 19:05:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Received: from localhost (wblock@localhost) by wonkity.com (8.14.6/8.14.6/Submit) with ESMTP id r0R25iwO002781; Sat, 26 Jan 2013 19:05:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2013 19:05:44 -0700 (MST) From: Warren Block To: "Isaac (.ike) Levy" Subject: Re: removing CVS in Handbook Updating and Upgrading chapter In-Reply-To: <1359241802-3572135.75152325.fr0QN9mrI032137@rs149.luxsci.com> Message-ID: References: <1359241802-3572135.75152325.fr0QN9mrI032137@rs149.luxsci.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wonkity.com [127.0.0.1]); Sat, 26 Jan 2013 19:05:45 -0700 (MST) Cc: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 02:23:06 -0000 On Sat, 26 Jan 2013, Isaac (.ike) Levy wrote: > On Jan 25, 2013, at 2:12 PM, Warren Block wrote: >>>> CVS is going away soon, and we should not be advising people to start using them now. >>>> This diff entirely removes cvsup, csup, and CVS references from the Updating and Upgrading chapter. SVN URLs are also changed to the preferred form and links to the SVN mirrors are added. >>>> Rendered: http://www.wonkity.com/~wblock/temp/cuttingedge-nocvs.html >>>> Diff: http://www.wonkity.com/~wblock/temp/cuttingedge-nocvs.diff > > Regarding src, this appears to be jumping the gun quite a bit, with possibly bad consequences: > > + ports, cvsup access end-of-lifed Feb 28 > (cool! drop cvs/cvsup references for it) > - source, cvsup deprecated - no end-of-life date set > (until canonical replacement is in place) > > Instead of replacing *all* CVS urls with SVN, I would like to advise you to merely make note of cvsup being deprecated for src? Deprecation warnings are already in the current version, since November 17: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/current-stable.html > Not sure if I need to explain this, but: > For a large number of system integrators, building userland/kernel from source is critical. > Most of these builds happen before ports/pkg get installed, (if they even do). The current state of SVN, binary packages, ports mechanism changes, and otherwise- all make for some nasty chicken/egg problems for many systems integrators. This part of the Handbook refers to fetching source for -CURRENT or -STABLE. We should not be suggesting CVS to new users who want to run development versions of FreeBSD. It's a misdirection, like a Perldoc-esque "here's an example, but you should never, ever do this". Existing CVS users already know how to use it, being existing and all. So the removal of CVS information from this chapter should not harm anyone already using it and should help by not steering newcomers to the wrong tool.