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Date:      Thu, 16 Nov 2023 00:07:36 -0500
From:      Glen Barber <gjb@freebsd.org>
To:        The Doctor <doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca>
Cc:        John Baldwin <jhb@freebsd.org>, FreeBSD Release Engineering Team <re@freebsd.org>, freebsd-current@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
Subject:   Re: [HEADS-UP] Quick update to 14.0-RELEASE schedule
Message-ID:  <5F24BC3A-88D9-4295-AA94-435C11A1F445@freebsd.org>
In-Reply-To: <ZVWOpeS8CIi5gsTm@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca>
References:  <ZVWOpeS8CIi5gsTm@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca>

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And if there is a reason to reissue a release, the update will reflect such.=


So to answer your latter question, yes.  Unless it needs to be replaced.

Glen
Sent from my phone.
Please excuse my brevity and/or typos.

> On Nov 15, 2023, at 11:38 PM, The Doctor <doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:=

>=20
> =EF=BB=BFOn Thu, Nov 16, 2023 at 12:30:30AM +0000, Glen Barber wrote:
>>> On Wed, Nov 15, 2023 at 08:39:39AM -0800, John Baldwin wrote:
>>> On 11/14/23 8:52 PM, Glen Barber wrote:
>>>> On Tue, Nov 14, 2023 at 08:10:23PM -0700, The Doctor wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, Nov 15, 2023 at 02:27:01AM +0000, Glen Barber wrote:
>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 14, 2023 at 05:15:48PM -0700, The Doctor wrote:
>>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 14, 2023 at 08:36:54PM +0000, Glen Barber wrote:
>>>>>>>> We are still waiting for a few (non-critical) things to complete be=
fore
>>>>>>>> the announcement of 14.0-RELEASE will be ready.
>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>> It should only be another day or so before these things complete.
>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>> Thank you for your understanding.
>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> I always just installed my copy.
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Ok.  I do not know what exactly is your point, but releases are never=

>>>>>> official until there is a PGP-signed email sent.  The email is intend=
ed
>>>>>> for the general public of consumers of official releases, not "yeah,
>>>>>> but"s.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Howver if you do a freebsd-update upgrade, you can upgrade.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Is that suppose to happen?
>>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> That does not say that the freebsd-update bits will not change *until*
>>>> the official release announcement has been sent.
>>>>=20
>>>> In my past 15 years involved in the Project, I think we have been very
>>>> clear on that.
>>>>=20
>>>> A RELEASE IS NOT FINAL UNTIL THE PGP-SIGNED ANNOUNCEMENT IS SENT.
>>>>=20
>>>> I mean, c'mon, dude.
>>>>=20
>>>> We really, seriously, for all intents and purposes, cannot be any more
>>>> clear than that.
>>>>=20
>>>> So, yes, *IF* an update necessitates a new freebsd-update build, what
>>>> you are running is *NOT* official.
>>>>=20
>>>> For at least 15 years, we have all said the same entire thing.
>>>=20
>>> Yes, but, if at this point we had to rebuild, it would have to be 14.0.1=

>>> or something (which we have done a few times in the past).  It would be
>>> too confusing otherwise once the bits are built and published (where
>>> published means "uploaded to our CDN").  It is the 14.0 release bits,
>>> the only question is if for some reason we had a dire emergency that
>>> meant we had to pull it at the last minute and publish different bits
>>> (under a different release name).
>>>=20
>>> Realistically, once the bits are available, we can't prevent people from=

>>> using them, it's just at their own risk to do so until the project says
>>> "yes, we believe these are good".  Granted, they are under the same risk=

>>> if they are still running the last RC.  The best way to minimize that
>>> risk going forward is to add more automation of testing/CI to go along
>>> with the process of building release bits so that the build artifacts
>>> from the release build run through CI and are only published if the CI
>>> is green as that would give us greater confidence of "we believe these
>>> are good" before they are uploaded for publishing.
>>>=20
>>=20
>> You are correct on all points.  If there were a need to re-roll 14.0, it
>> would indeed necessitate a release/14.0.1 tag.  Note, release/14.0.0 has
>> not yet been tagged, and I find it extremely unlikely that it will be
>> necessary to rebuild from a release/14.0.1 tag.
>>=20
>> I also agree we cannot prevent people from downloading the images,
>> installers, whatever before the announcement.  That is the lovely race
>> condition with which we have to live at the moment.
>>=20
>> My email was intended to be informative.  Period.
>>=20
>> There were no suggestions that 14.0-RELEASE was not yet final.  And to
>> be fair, I had to personally deal with the fallout of a release "too
>> soon", notably 11.0-RELEASE, where I thought a critical issue had been
>> addressed, but I was wrong.
>>=20
>> My only point, in being overly open to the public on the delay, is that
>> we (the Release Engineering Team) are not yet ready to rubber-stamp this
>> as complete, as there are some outstanding items that are pending that
>> have not yet completed.
>>=20
>> The alternative would be to say nothing at all.
>>=20
>> Either way, it is a productivity, communication drain.  It is
>> a lose-lose situation no matter how one looks at it given the above
>> context.  We either get chastised for being "too open" into insights
>> delaying an official announcement, or for being "not open enough" when
>> there is silence from RE when a release does not meet its scheduled
>> announcement date.
>>=20
>> Glen
>>=20
>>=20
>=20
> What ahappened was that I inititated the freebsd-upgrade RELEASE upgrade c=
ommand.
>=20
> question should that RELEASe been released?
>=20
> --=20
> Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
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>=20




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