From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Sep 1 15:27:42 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E53816A4DA; Fri, 1 Sep 2006 15:27:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mycroft@MIT.EDU) Received: from multics.mit.edu (MULTICS.MIT.EDU [18.187.1.73]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D693343D70; Fri, 1 Sep 2006 15:27:34 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from mycroft@MIT.EDU) Received: (from mycroft@localhost) by multics.mit.edu (8.12.9.20060308) id k81FRX57028661; Fri, 1 Sep 2006 11:27:33 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 11:27:32 -0400 From: "Charles M. Hannum" To: "Marc G. Fournier" , "Constantine A. Murenin" , misc@openbsd.org, Harpalus a Como , Thorsten Glaser , netbsd-users@netbsd.org, miros-discuss@mirbsd.org, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20060901152732.GR10101@multics.mit.edu> References: <20060830232723.GU10101@multics.mit.edu> <98f5a8830608301731s2b0663e3g94b0bd32f8a06a78@mail.gmail.com> <950621ad0608310654h78ae0023g346abd108815ae72@mail.gmail.com> <20060831110112.J82634@hub.org> <20060831184715.B82634@hub.org> <20060831230813.GA28455@petunia.outback.escape.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20060831230813.GA28455@petunia.outback.escape.de> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i Cc: Subject: Re: The future of NetBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 15:27:42 -0000 On Fri, Sep 01, 2006 at 01:08:13AM +0200, Matthias Kilian wrote: > They don't have to write device drivers at all, they just should > write good documentation. Unfortunately, the "documentation" often isn't so hot either. I'll give you an example. Even with both code and "documentation" from Realtek, we still had to reverse engineer how some parts of the RTL8180 work. And though it works now, our understanding is still incomplete. It is far easier for a manufacturer to spew out a Windows driver in-house, where they have direct access to the people who designed the hardware, so this is what they do. The Windows driver model is pretty much designed around this approach. What we really want is not just documentation, but support from their engineers. The Linux community is starting to get this in some places.