From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Sun Dec 16 21:32:51 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0985133CBE0 for ; Sun, 16 Dec 2018 21:32:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (mailman.ysv.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::50:5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE90169A82 for ; Sun, 16 Dec 2018 21:32:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id B26E8133CBDC; Sun, 16 Dec 2018 21:32:50 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FFE4133CBDB for ; Sun, 16 Dec 2018 21:32:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-qt1-x82d.google.com (mail-qt1-x82d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::82d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0310369A7F for ; Sun, 16 Dec 2018 21:32:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-qt1-x82d.google.com with SMTP id v11so12110347qtc.2 for ; Sun, 16 Dec 2018 13:32:49 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=STBgZsuRG3+448ysic5SgC0Isiawa7HjiPl7ooKqMGo=; b=rcjIPOZsyLvPMwjqOEEeWDGAtYAyt26aqTBoZOHkjuOlpZ6uIMrjKUDmpS/VZ0ui/V WyQRBAswIb5cooDSKQSR99QNGV0AbRWm+tvPQHEWHlwO9pXHg0do39gG+/jtVa4Z8eYW kA3YFsAwVP0r0jkXRgyDqEx79mMtxy0D0gpW1ZaF6sgM+zaHlg3Fs6zloq9XnbuKEqCW PJIeFkU5Zzmc7ZDizi09CJobO6vqGJbWcZjKw2jlFajgwHKgIDT0br9AQm4TniKnEg2i n0i3bh7Q/IYZVyTbLzVmVnQHRy0vYy6fLmjFldsf2xvTGwDr1UVxu9ztqYvAKQV+JjqO MykA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=STBgZsuRG3+448ysic5SgC0Isiawa7HjiPl7ooKqMGo=; b=hMA8MNNXv3ifSd8koX2ro7u/4Bf6J9CmOnaO0Pun+Qjce+NjRFo5IE6EZuMXB7pp6h glbyk6Wt5ps/gidRLeeVqt/F+JOFfwoeJ5IxJjY/uPKSQL7xGidPQaq6dwcQLn5zsjIf 6/BRp9Bq9RAcuVjNW9ZLH4z/8ho/BOX0Ks7N9uPZBLybB4Q899c/xT7547fnHzCCJbu9 l2d9b5E8MQoUI31z59A5DME2dFCRleIQlMljyPLvy+QL1CnXbZEJVOAHHNIae1+pUw0h AJQNj3LaPexXF7cCsVCV7tn0UGshAO4FzalZc5go5y8hkaMNLjaomAOluMzFRS4zsXHu AXVw== X-Gm-Message-State: AA+aEWax71iGc5USn7YAvbV/FSaWPL+v3PzHXU9UVj/5otBgHTqynMl5 2Ae9/mhMzdk3FNGmQI0kncIC8eTksAWGTM6Ujne5RW1Y X-Google-Smtp-Source: AFSGD/UWMfldQ5HGRNrdW/QJHJFrluoA4K2a48L99pPwrJecx/ZRQ2KgpeM2C43b1TiZ3DHZxSV2WKEz77dvCd2/JkY= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:42c1:: with SMTP id g1mr11364661qtm.118.1544995969162; Sun, 16 Dec 2018 13:32:49 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <201812161645.wBGGj7qn092076@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> <261A6437-3ECC-43FF-ADA2-EE430477BB92@lists.zabbadoz.net> <80965.1544993496@critter.freebsd.dk> In-Reply-To: <80965.1544993496@critter.freebsd.dk> From: Warner Losh Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2018 14:32:36 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: A proposal for code removal prior to FreeBSD 13 To: Poul-Henning Kamp Cc: "Bjoern A. Zeeb" , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" , George Neville-Neil , "Rodney W. Grimes" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 0310369A7F X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.98 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.98)[-0.980,0]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.998,0]; REPLY(-4.00)[] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2018 21:32:52 -0000 On Sun, Dec 16, 2018, 1:55 PM Poul-Henning Kamp -------- > In message <261A6437-3ECC-43FF-ADA2-EE430477BB92@lists.zabbadoz.net>, > "Bjoern A > . Zeeb" writes: > > >> timed was removed outside of current procedure, and that should > >> be corrected ASAP, > > > >No, it should not. There is a stable branch, with shipping releases, > >and support until at least June 30, 2020, possibly longer. > This is a bit of a specious argument. While I agree we have time to correct any lack, arguing stable branch lifetimes in prior discussions hasn't been helpful to getting consensus. It's basically telling at someone rather than offering a useful arguement. In this case, we can trivially extract timed into a port and we'd be done. Since the remedy is easy, and this is current, we have the luxury of time needed for rational discourse. >The questions are: > >[...] > (e) Has anybody ever run timed(8) on FreeBSD in the first place ? > (f) What was wrong with them ? > They have. However, the numbers are low. This should not be in base. I'll extract into a github repo (since that has been trivial in the past and preserves history), but someone else will have to do the port. Again, this borders on an ad hominem attack, which history has shown to be not useful in reaching consensus. Warner >