From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Nov 14 02:22:25 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: arch@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 260C41065670; Mon, 14 Nov 2011 02:22:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gad@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp8.server.rpi.edu (smtp8.server.rpi.edu [128.113.2.228]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D46638FC0C; Mon, 14 Nov 2011 02:22:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: from gilead.netel.rpi.edu (gilead.netel.rpi.edu [128.113.124.121]) by smtp8.server.rpi.edu (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id pAE18qPo017402; Sun, 13 Nov 2011 20:08:53 -0500 Message-ID: <4EC06A24.6070502@FreeBSD.org> Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2011 20:08:52 -0500 From: Garance A Drosehn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; en-US; rv:1.9.1.9) Gecko/20100722 Eudora/3.0.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ed Schouten References: <20111110123919.GF2164@hoeg.nl> <4EBC4B6E.4060607@FreeBSD.org> <20111111112821.GP2164@hoeg.nl> <4EBDC06F.6020907@FreeBSD.org> <20111112103918.GV2164@hoeg.nl> In-Reply-To: <20111112103918.GV2164@hoeg.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Bayes-Prob: 0.0001 (Score 0) X-RPI-SA-Score: 1.50 (*) [Hold at 12.00] COMBINED_FROM,RATWARE_GECKO_BUILD X-CanItPRO-Stream: outgoing X-Canit-Stats-ID: Bayes signature not available X-Scanned-By: CanIt (www . roaringpenguin . com) on 128.113.2.228 Cc: arch@FreeBSD.org, Doug Barton Subject: Re: The strangeness called `sbin' X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 02:22:25 -0000 On 11/12/11 5:39 AM, Ed Schouten wrote: > Hi Doug, > > * Doug Barton, 20111112 01:40: > >>> But the point is: there are quite some tools in */sbin that should be >>> moved to */bin. I can at least point out 15 of them. >>> >> Why don't we discuss those specifics first? >> > In my opinion at least the following binaries are candidates of apps > that can be moved from sbin to bin, as they all work to some degree > without root privileges: > > - ac > - arp > - config > - daemon > - dmesg > - ifconfig > - jls > - kldstat > - lastlogin > - md5 > - mtree > - ping > - ping6 > - pkg_info > - pkg_version > - pstat > - rcorder > - rmd160 > - sendmail > - sha1 > - sha256 > - sysctl > > FWIW: I wouldn't mind if md5, sha1, sha256 and rmd160 were moved, although I can also guess why they were initially put in the '/sbin' directory. As an aside, note the 'openssl' command is in /usr/bin, and it includes support for those digest types as well as several others. I wouldn't mind if ping, ping6, pkg_info, and pkg_version moved. I definitely don't understand why 'lastlogin' is in /usr/sbin while 'last' is in /usr/bin. I don't think that ac, arp, config, daemon, dmesg, jls, kldstat, rcorder, or sendmail should be moved. I'm not sure what I think about moving the other binaries in that list. Even moving the binaries which are reasonable to move can cause some problems, as sometimes scripts are written with hardcoded paths and assumptions of what options an executable supports based on where it was found. This is what happens for users (or autoconf rules) who have work with multiple flavors of unix. In my full-time job, I do support for a college. And given some of the professors I have to support, there really *IS* an advantage to having "systems-y" binary outside of their normal path. The people who do *need* those systems-y binaries should be people who understand unix enough that adding /sbin to their PATH is not a problem. And the people I know who cannot handle setting PATH, are also people who should not be running some of the commands listed above. IMO. I'm just giving my opinion, as I do not have the energy for some long debate about every binary someone might want to move. -- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@gilead.netel.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer or gad@freebsd.org Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute or drosih@rpi.edu