From owner-freebsd-virtualization@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Feb 8 22:39:11 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1ADA795D for ; Sat, 8 Feb 2014 22:39:11 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-pb0-x22f.google.com (mail-pb0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c01::22f]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D8F1D1584 for ; Sat, 8 Feb 2014 22:39:10 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-pb0-f47.google.com with SMTP id rp16so4694862pbb.6 for ; Sat, 08 Feb 2014 14:39:10 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=HF9IL7RtD1Gpsd9g8Q7p8PdWS8tYENCNelJ/1Bo6Ni4=; b=MslBg0P8nFk9UoxFIKUHWHaZVIZ8lXO0T81Rs1aG8r+JRWNDB9cc1kxZoU29muh3PN QBdKpVaJixqTWi4lR5NW6fEpTBvQbzQL6prSs+FwvUQMJ69CLTA7kcmMDr86Ze7G1JGT mDrCzT4DbFTOAFCvIEqtgSrw3Wbo8z51A4aVZQCn7TR5YM1M5jL9B/CY61kaTeUBL7w4 UMTu92uqGv/M2/7UNN//Se+nvfTDBd81CloH86nuiNQYCvXAsJVDodPjep7QN/qaMLSd /BruDV817w5OUE89ATkyi3g1P0SyaBmXf/a5bwQjm2pzuxoc9O2ef+Vd9eLkQEjDMPlD X2tg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.68.201.97 with SMTP id jz1mr28606314pbc.26.1391899150391; Sat, 08 Feb 2014 14:39:10 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.68.155.38 with HTTP; Sat, 8 Feb 2014 14:39:10 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <52F5363D.8040102@freebsd.org> Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2014 17:39:10 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Report of my virtual network lab migrated from virtualbox to bhyve From: Aryeh Friedman To: Adam Vande More Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.17 Cc: FreeBSD virtualization X-BeenThere: freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of various virtualization techniques FreeBSD supports." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2014 22:39:11 -0000 On Sat, Feb 8, 2014 at 3:57 PM, Aryeh Friedman wrote: > > > > On Sat, Feb 8, 2014 at 3:54 PM, Adam Vande More wrote: > >> >> On Sat, Feb 8, 2014 at 2:14 PM, Aryeh Friedman wrote: >> >>> >>> It sounds almost identical to the qcow2 security issue being discussed >>> on qemu-devel@qemu.org recently. This might be a *HUGE* win for bhyve >>> then in considering that it's default format is raw (should ahci-hdd be the >>> default?). devel/qemu (not sure about -dev) uses qcow2 as a default and >>> when playing with it on other OS's I found that it seemed to default to >>> that also. It is my understand that most of the open source cloud >>> platforms use qcow2 as their default also (I remember this from an attempt >>> to install openstack grizzly last summer... I have not checked havana >>> though... can any of the freebsd-openstack confirm this?). >>> >> >> I don't consider it a huge win because the possibility of using an >> insecure device precludes it. Someone high on the tree bhyve needs to >> confirm or deny this otherwise it is unsafe to recommend bhyve >> or petitecloud. No offense intended, I really hope it succeeds and will >> likely use it if it does. I cannot use anything which leaves the host >> open. I am also unclear on how bhyve bypasses GEOM which *should* prevent >> any of the symptoms discussed. >> > > The point was that raw has no issue and this is the default for both bhyve > and petitecloud (to avoid certain list politics I didn't mention it by name > before). Sparse is the issue and thus qemu, openstack and cloudstack (as > well as likely vbox) are a problem. > > I should say in all the sparse format cases I do not consider it a flaw (per se) that they picked because if your not considering sceurity qcow2 is a very good format. If PetiteCloud had not started with bhyve as our first hypervisor instead of say qemu it is almost certain we would of fallen into the same trap. It is easy to over look the obvious also like for example until this thread I didn't see how image format could effect security (assuming that it was not crypted of course) -- Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org