From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Apr 4 14:50:27 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from rafiu.psi-domain.co.uk (rafiu.psi-domain.co.uk [212.87.84.199]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45F8037B718 for ; Wed, 4 Apr 2001 14:50:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from heckfordj@psi-domain.co.uk) Received: from smtp.psi-domain.co.uk (mail.trident-uk.co.uk [195.166.16.10]) by rafiu.psi-domain.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f34GW9c00843; Wed, 4 Apr 2001 17:32:09 +0100 (BST) Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 18:32:22 +0100 From: Jamie Heckford To: chosey@nidhog.com Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: RE: RE: Chasing the kiddies (was: Named Keep crashing) Message-ID: <20010404183222.Y2879@storm.psi-domain.co.uk> Reply-To: heckfordj@psi-domain.co.uk References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: ; from drew.weaver@thenap.com on Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 17:43:02 +0100 X-Mailer: Balsa 1.1.1 Lines: 300 Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I think allowing less understanding is *not* the best stance to take on running a public server. RPM is easier, but less flexible (IMHO). I must admit though, apt-get is quite impressive when it comes to upgrading. J On 2001.04.04 17:43 Drew J. Weaver wrote: > -----Original Message----- > From: Chet Hosey [mailto:chosey@nidhog.com] > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 12:17 PM > To: Drew J. Weaver > Cc: 'freebsd-isp@freebsd.org' > Subject: OT: RE: Chasing the kiddies (was: Named Keep crashing) > > > >From what I've seen, RH has GUI tools for a lot of things (Linuxconf, I > think?). RH seems much simpler to run (as an end user) than FreeBSD. You > can download RPMs for everything, including the kernel. I know RedHat > users who've never touched gcc. > > Even using ports requires slightly more knowledge than "Using Netscape, > download coolproggie.rpm, open an xterm, and run rpm -i coolproggie.rpm". > > Under Debian, upgrading Bind for the security fix is a matter of "apt-get > update; apt-get install bind". Hell, upgrading *everything*, system libs, > init, X, name-your-vi-clone, emacs, bind, lynx, etc., is just "apt-get > update; apt-get dist-upgrade". > > The RedHat way of doing things allows one to avoid understanding. It > seems > that FreeBSD allows less ignorance. > > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Chet Hosey > > ________________________________________________________________________ > > On Wed, 4 Apr 2001, Drew J. Weaver wrote: > > > Just an off topic note here, FreeBSD, BSDi/OS and RedHat are > all of > > equal "difficulty" to administer, I run all 3 and none of them make me > > shiver in my boots. Not sure what point you're attempting to make here? > > > > --- quoth the raven, --- > > > > Everybody should start with a *nix running on a publicly accessable > box. > > (Note: Linux doesn't count here, except possibly really old versions of > > Slackware. Damned RH makes things too easy. No X either - CLI, people!) > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > > > > Chet Hosey > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > > > > On Wed, 4 Apr 2001, Bill Vermillion wrote: > > > > > On Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 05:45:48PM +1000, Enno Davids thus spoke: > > > > > > > | > Is there any way to trace who is doing it? | > Running tcpdump > > > > with certain filter settings to avoid logging everything and > > > > filling the disk? > > > > > > > > > > | Dont bother... Just install the fixed version of bind... > > > > | Every kid with a script and an internet connection is probably > > > > | doing this to you!!! > > > > > > > This response kind of bothers me. There was a time > > > > when everytime I could sanely trace spammers I emailed > > > > abuse@wherever.was.relevant to advise them. Similarly, when people > > > > probed Apache I'd send off adivsory emails. > > > > > > If you find a way this works let me know. I've given up doing this > > > because except for the most well known, I've received rejects from > > > all mail addresses at the offending provider, root,abuse, > > > postmaster, webmaster, etc. So I just gave up and put the in > > > the REJECT list. > > > > > > Those days responsible people, and not quick buck artists, we're > > > keeping the 'net running. > > > > > > > There was a time when if you probed the Apache on my machine it > > > > winnuke'd you back. Moral issues aside, there _was_ a great deal > > > > of satisfaction there... Needless to say, there's little mileage > > > > in this now (damned M$ service packs!). :) > > > > > > I never was into 'revenge' or 'tit-for-tat'. > > > > > > Bill > > > -- > > > Bill Vermillion - bv @ wjv . com > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message > > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message > > > > > > > RE: RE: Chasing the kiddies (was: Named Keep crashing) > > > >

        Actually its > easier to keep updated software on your machine if you're using FreeBSD, > through ports, all you do is cvsup your ports collection and go into the > directory of the program you want to install and type make install and it > downloads and installs it, doesnt really get much easier than that, but > really, what is wrong with something being easy, and understandable, I > find it somewhat refreshing that not everything is as complicated as > sendmail =)

> >

-----Original Message----- >
From: Chet Hosey [ HREF="mailto:chosey@nidhog.com">mailto:chosey@nidhog.com] >
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 12:17 PM >
To: Drew J. Weaver >
Cc: 'freebsd-isp@freebsd.org' >
Subject: OT: RE: Chasing the kiddies (was: Named Keep > crashing) >

>
> >

From what I've seen, RH has GUI tools for a lot of things > (Linuxconf, I >
think?). RH seems much simpler to run (as an end user) > than FreeBSD. You >
can download RPMs for everything, including the kernel. > I know RedHat >
users who've never touched gcc. >

> >

Even using ports requires slightly more knowledge than > "Using Netscape, >
download coolproggie.rpm, open an xterm, and run rpm -i > coolproggie.rpm". >

> >

Under Debian, upgrading Bind for the security fix is a > matter of "apt-get >
update; apt-get install bind". Hell, upgrading > *everything*, system libs, >
init, X, name-your-vi-clone, emacs, bind, lynx, etc., is > just "apt-get >
update; apt-get dist-upgrade". >

> >

The RedHat way of doing things allows one to avoid > understanding. It seems >
that FreeBSD allows less ignorance. >

> >

________________________________________________________________________ >

> >

Chet Hosey >
<chosey@nidhog.com> >
________________________________________________________________________ >

> >

On Wed, 4 Apr 2001, Drew J. Weaver wrote: >

> >

>       Just an off topic > note here, FreeBSD, BSDi/OS and RedHat are all of >
> equal "difficulty" to administer, I run > all 3 and none of them make me >
> shiver in my boots. Not sure what point you're > attempting to make here? >
> >
> --- quoth the raven, --- >
> >
> Everybody should start with a *nix running on a > publicly accessable box. >
> (Note: Linux doesn't count here, except possibly > really old versions of >
> Slackware. Damned RH makes things too easy. No X > either - CLI, people!) >
> >
> ________________________________________________________________________ >
> >
> Chet Hosey >
> <chosey@nidhog.com> >
> ________________________________________________________________________ >
> >
> On Wed, 4 Apr 2001, Bill Vermillion wrote: >
> >
> > On Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 05:45:48PM +1000, Enno > Davids thus spoke: >
> > >
> > > | > Is there any way to trace who is > doing it? | > Running tcpdump >
> > > with certain filter settings to avoid > logging everything and >
> > > filling the disk? >
> > >
> > >
> > > | Dont bother... Just install the fixed > version of bind... >
> > > | Every kid with a script and an internet > connection is probably >
> > > | doing this to you!!! >
> > >
> > > This response kind of bothers me. There > was a time >
> > > when everytime I could sanely trace > spammers I emailed >
> > > abuse@wherever.was.relevant to advise > them. Similarly, when people >
> > > probed Apache I'd send off adivsory > emails. >
> > >
> > If you find a way this works let me > know.  I've given up doing this >
> > because except for the most well known, I've > received rejects from >
> > all mail addresses at the offending provider, > root,abuse, >
> > postmaster, webmaster, etc.  So I just > gave up and put the in >
> > the REJECT list. >
> > >
> > Those days responsible people, and not quick > buck artists, we're >
> > keeping the 'net running. >
> > >
> > > There was a time when if you probed the > Apache on my machine it >
> > > winnuke'd you back. Moral issues aside, > there _was_ a great deal >
> > > of satisfaction there... Needless to say, > there's little mileage >
> > > in this now (damned M$ service packs!). > :) >
> > >
> > I never was into 'revenge' or > 'tit-for-tat'. >
> > >
> > Bill >
> > -- >
> > Bill Vermillion -   bv @ wjv . > com >
> > >
> > To Unsubscribe: send mail to > majordomo@FreeBSD.org >
> > with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in > the body of the message >
> > >
> >
> >
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to > majordomo@FreeBSD.org >
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the > body of the message >
> >

>
> >

To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >
with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of > the message >

> > > -- Jamie Heckford Chief Network Engineer Psi-Domain - Innovative Linux Solutions. Ask Us How. FreeBSD - The power to serve ===================================== email: heckfordj@psi-domain.co.uk web: http://www.psi-domain.co.uk/ tel: +44 (0)1737 789 246 fax: +44 (0)1737 789 245 mobile: +44 (0)7866 724 224 ===================================== To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message