Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 11:38:31 -0700 From: Vizion <vizion@vizion.occoxmail.com> To: freebsd-java@freebsd.org Cc: Brian Clapper <brian-freebsd-009@clapper.org> Subject: Re: FreeBSD 4.11, native JDK1.5, SIGBUS, zip Message-ID: <200506021138.31619.vizion@vizion.occoxmail.com> In-Reply-To: <200506021749.j52Hn09N025637@sunball.inside.clapper.org> References: <20050602084845.GH39198@beaujolais.extremis.net> <200506020637.51203.vizion@vizion.occoxmail.com> <200506021749.j52Hn09N025637@sunball.inside.clapper.org>
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On Thursday 02 June 2005 10:49, the author Brian Clapper contributed to the dialogue on- Re: FreeBSD 4.11, native JDK1.5, SIGBUS, zip: >On 2 June, 2005, at 06:37 (-0700) > >Vizion <vizion@vizion.occoxmail.com> wrote: >> Everyone appreciates Alexey's many warm-hearted contributions to advancing >> FreeBsd for all comers. >> >> <chuckles> - you have to laugh when people provoke flames - you will go >> the way you need to go and I wish you all the best. I am sorry that >> letting you know how much I appreciated the the results of upgrading has >> had such an impact upon you. If I had known in advance that you would have >> responded so beligerantly to my original short one liner I would have >> kept quiet. >> >> Whilst it is not unreasonable to conclude that some of the difficulties >> with the JDK is another good reason for upgrading on top of all the >> additional features of 5.x., I would agree that how much additional weight >> it adds to that initiative must be a matter of individual need and taste. >> >> If you wish to aggressively define that conclusion about upgrading as >> 'ill-informed "opinions"' then who am I to object - after all you are >> free to express your contrary opinions, and make your own choice about the >> degree of politeness and warmth applicable to that expression. >> >> >> david > >Please try to avoid interpreting this message as a flame. It's not intended >as such. It does not appear to me to be so -- it is thoughfully written, respectful and honest. >That said... > >It's excellent that upgrading FreeBSD has worked so well for you. >(Seriously.) Unfortunately, that's not always possible or practical for >everyone. For instance, I'm currently running 4.11, for various reasons I >won't bore you with. While I eventually plan to upgrade to 5.x, doing so >simply isn't an option for me at the moment, either. Everyone needs to pick their time and opportunity! > >Though I'm sure you meant no offense, suggesting that George Cox upgrade >the entire operating system to fix a Java-related problem is not exactly >the most helpful of responses. Understood -- you are right -- but I guess my spontaneous, light hearted response would have been more likely to have generated a response similar to one I received from someone else with the same problem to whom I responded in the same way. It is all in the wash as far as I am concerned .. and whatever the circumstances I would not wish to be unpleasant or vituperative. I mean we all may make suggestions about solving a problem which might not be practical at the time. Noone can guess what situation anyone faces -- and when I expose a problem to this list - I can expect to hear replies which include some that may be currently impracticable for me, some which may point out something I had carelessly omited to think about, some that may be really helpful, and some that may be downright stupid or humerous <chuckles>. My view is that whatever happens we need to treat one another with civil respect and not make resonally offensive, sarcastic or derogatory remarks. If one person is encouraged to belittle people in this way - then I feel it behoves those of us who are old enuf and ugly enuf to deal with it. >It may be that upgrading the operating >system is, in fact, the only thing that will fix his problem. > I am uncertain whether that is true - it depends upon what degree of unreliability he can tolerate from jdk15 He will make his choice -- in the meantime there may be temporary stop gaps that may reduce the extent of the difficulty. My cautiously held experience is, which will continue until I see any evidence to the contrary, that using jdk1.5 on 4.x is likely to be a cause of constant headaches. Now it may be that some people will be offer patches which will alleviate some of the problems. However if it is really that important to move to jdk 1.5 (and I presume George did so because he needed the features it offers and not because it is the latest toy) then, in such a category, my opinion remains, namely --- in the absense of some other imperative, an upgrade of the system could offer the least amount of inconvenience. Because I hold that opinion it does not mean that I expect others to immediately adopt it. <Grinz> Georges situation seemed to fall into that category and it seemed to me that George's response was to shoot the messenger rather than respond thoughfully, to what was, an honest, but light expression of honest opinion. I do not believe rudeness was an appropriate response. >But it's a >sledgehammer solution, Oh I agree it requires substantial effort-- having been pushed to upgrade for reasons which include jdk15 it is not a light task >and hardly the one that most people wish to >undertake as the first recourse-- I agree with you - and any decision would depend upon how important jdk15 and the other benefits of upgrading are to the user. >especially when it's not at all clear >whether the problem is related to the operating system or the current alpha >nature of the native 1.5 JDK. I think that was really my point -- its risky enuf taking on alpha stuff and you need to be very highly motivated to do so on a platform to which, it is currently known to be unsuited. My understanding (and I do not profess to have detailed knowledge of the mechanics) is that it might be due to the way the 4.x handles some processes and memory. The fact is that problems with jdk15 have not manifested themselves so far on my 5.3 -- but as it experimental - I would not be surprised to get some. My position was not, and is not, prescriptive. Just another point of view, which depending, upon the inclination of the listener, may be valued in range of BS>fantastic <chuckles> Thanks for thoughtful input it is appreciated. David >_______________________________________________ >freebsd-java@freebsd.org mailing list >http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-java >To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-java-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" -- 40 yrs navigating and computing in blue waters. English Owner & Captain of British Registered 60' bluewater Ketch S/V Taurus. Currently in San Diego, CA. Sailing May/June bound for Europe via Panama Canal.
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