From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Sat Dec 23 12:29:25 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2499EA4A73 for ; Sat, 23 Dec 2017 12:29:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from karl@denninger.net) Received: from colo1.denninger.net (colo1.denninger.net [67.205.158.196]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9C2C1ECC for ; Sat, 23 Dec 2017 12:29:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from karl@denninger.net) Received: from denninger.net (ip68-1-57-197.pn.at.cox.net [68.1.57.197]) by colo1.denninger.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B9E527386 for ; Sat, 23 Dec 2017 07:29:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.10.23] (D13.Denninger.Net [192.168.10.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by denninger.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 71C03127EBC for ; Sat, 23 Dec 2017 06:29:18 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: SMART: disk problems on RAIDZ1 pool: (ada6:ahcich6:0:0:0): CAMstatus: ATA Status Error To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org References: <201712131647.vBDGlrf2092528@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> <4d58b06a-0dbe-af05-1bd2-e87929e3b7a5@digiware.nl> <20171223122608.4ea4f097@thor.intern.walstatt.dynvpn.de> From: Karl Denninger Message-ID: Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2017 06:29:15 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20171223122608.4ea4f097@thor.intern.walstatt.dynvpn.de> Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha-512; boundary="------------ms040402010205050904010300" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.25 X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2017 12:29:26 -0000 This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms040402010205050904010300 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 12/23/2017 05:25, O. Hartmann wrote: > Am Thu, 14 Dec 2017 12:05:20 +0100 > Willem Jan Withagen schrieb: > >> On 13/12/2017 17:47, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: >>>> On Tue, 12 Dec 2017 14:58:28 -0800 >>>> Cy Schubert wrote: >>>> I think people responding to my thread made it clear that the WD Gre= en >>>> isn't the first-choice-solution for a 20/6 (not 24/7) duty drive and= >>>> the fact, that they have serviced now more than 25000 hours, it woul= d >>>> be wise to replace them with alternatives. =20 >>> I think someone had an apm command that turns off the head park, >>> that would do wonders for drive life. On the other hand, I think >>> if it was my data and I saw that the drive had 2M head load cycles >>> I would be looking to get out of that driv with any data I could >>> not easily replace. If it was well backed up or easily replaced >>> my worries would be less. =20 >> WD made their first series of Green disks green by aggressively turnin= g=20 >> them into sleep state. Like when few secs there was nog activity they = >> would park the head, spin it down, and sleep the disk... >> Access would need to undo the whole series of command. >> >> This could be reset by writing in one of the disks registers. I rememb= er=20 >> doing that for my 1,5G WDs (WD15EADS from 2009). That saved a lot of=20 >> startups. I still have 'm around, but only use them for things that ar= e=20 >> not valuable at all. Some have died over time, but about half of them = >> still seem to work without much trouble. >> >> WD used to have a .exe program to actually do this. But that did not >> work on later disks. And turning things of on those disks was=20 >> impossible/a lot more complex. >> >> This type of disk worked quite a long time in my ZFS setup. Like a few= =20 >> years, but I turned parking of as soon as there was a lot of turmoil=20 >> about this in the community. >> Now I using WD reds for small ZFS systems, and WD red Pro for large=20 >> private storage servers. Professional server get HGST He disks, a bit = >> more expensive, but very little fallout. >> >> --WjW > Hello fellows. > > First of all, I managed it over the past week+ to replace all(!) drives= with new ones. I > decided to use this time HGST 4TB Deskstar NAS (HGST HDN726040ALE614) i= nstead of WD RED > 4TB (WDC WD40EFRX-68N32N0). The one WD RED is about to be replaced in t= he next days. > > Apart from the very long resilvering time (the first drive, the Western= Digital WD RED > 4TB with 64MB cache and 5400 rpm) took 11 h, all HGST drives, although = considered faster > (7200 rpm, 128 MB cache) took 15 - 16 h), everything ran smoothly - exc= ept, as mentioned, > the exorbitant times of recovery. > > A very interesting point in this story is: as you could see, the WD Cav= iar Green 3TB > drives suffered from a high "193 Load_Cycle_Count" - almost 85 per hour= =2E When replacing > the drives, I figured out, that one of the four drives was already a We= stern Digital RED > 3TB NAS drive, but investigating its "193 Load_Cycle_Count" revealed, = that this drive > also had a unusual high reload count - see "smartctl -x" output attache= d. It seems, as > you already stated, that the APM feature responsible for this isn't ava= ilable. The drive > has been purchased Q4/2013. > > The HGST drives are very(!) noisy, th ehead movement induces a notable = ringing, while the > WD drive(s) are/were really silent. The power consumption of the HGST d= rives is higher. > But apart from that, I'm disappointed about the fact that WD has also i= mplemented this > "timebomb" Load_Cycle_Count issue. > > Thanks a lot for your help and considerations! > > Kind regards, > Oliver I have a fairly large number of HGST "NAS" drives in service across multiple locations (several dozens units total.)=C2=A0 I don't like their= 5Tb models much (they're slow comparatively for an unknown reason) but the 4Tb and 6Tb models I have in the field, while noisy and somewhat more power-hungry (the latter comes from the 7200 rpm speed) have yet to suffer a failure. --=20 Karl Denninger karl@denninger.net /The Market Ticker/ /[S/MIME encrypted email preferred]/ --------------ms040402010205050904010300 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature 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