From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Nov 2 04:48:48 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EEC841065672 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2008 04:48:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from perrin@apotheon.com) Received: from outbound-mail-33.bluehost.com (outbound-mail-33.bluehost.com [69.89.18.153]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id BCBAE8FC16 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2008 04:48:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from perrin@apotheon.com) Received: (qmail 11328 invoked by uid 0); 2 Nov 2008 04:48:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box183.bluehost.com) (69.89.25.183) by outboundproxy2.bluehost.com with SMTP; 2 Nov 2008 04:48:46 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=default; d=apotheon.com; h=Received:Received:Date:From:To:Subject:Message-ID:Mail-Followup-To:References:Mime-Version:Content-Type:Content-Disposition:In-Reply-To:User-Agent:X-Identified-User; b=dF4pfLuefuskZ6qw5Zbuh/cXMnwfvVY43ilDztU73M3Mko0X7B3u9Aa4Nub7OdkpSY+9VdDKcnPj9m2SnD/9TU1NW++XI08XtW5MDfR1bV+yxzC5EFjZvi1SUHHhHQDG; Received: from c-24-8-180-234.hsd1.co.comcast.net ([24.8.180.234] helo=kokopelli.hydra) by box183.bluehost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1KwUtJ-0006nS-MF for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Sat, 01 Nov 2008 22:48:45 -0600 Received: by kokopelli.hydra (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Sat, 1 Nov 2008 22:40:03 -0600 Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2008 22:40:03 -0600 From: Chad Perrin To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20081102044003.GC2112@kokopelli.hydra> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <20081101163322.B10508@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl> <901166.83096.qm@web56804.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="vEao7xgI/oilGqZ+" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <901166.83096.qm@web56804.mail.re3.yahoo.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i X-Identified-User: {737:box183.bluehost.com:apotheon:apotheon.org} {sentby:smtp auth 24.8.180.234 authed with ren@apotheon.org} Subject: Re: Is KDE4 usable on FreeBSD? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2008 04:48:48 -0000 --vEao7xgI/oilGqZ+ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, Nov 01, 2008 at 08:49:09AM -0700, mdh wrote: >=20 > I rather like KDE4. I don't find that it's like Windows at all, given th= at Windows is an operating system and KDE4 is a development framework, appl= ication suite, and window manager. There're hefty differences there, not t= he least of which being that KDE4 isn't an operating system kernel. In gen= eral, I've found it to be well-maintained (some of the window managers I've= used in the past went defunct when the 1-2 developers actively working on = them got bored or whatever), nicely designed, attractive appearance-wise, a= nd easy to configure. Let's face it, spending a whole bunch of hours over = the course of a few weeks writing a perfect afterstep config was really coo= l when I was a young'un and didn't have a life to worry about, but nowadays= I just want to get on with what needs doing. KDE allows me to accomplish = just that, efficiently, and without leaving me unable to toggle/modify/conf= igure certain things as GNOME does. =20 >=20 My preference is to simply find a window manager that acts as much like my ideal as possible in its default, unconfigured form -- and make a few minor tweaks as necessary. What I don't want is something that has a whole bunch of stuff heaped on it to cover every possible eventuality the developers envision, leaving me still wanting more, with an "easy" configuration interface to try to make up for the lacks. That, I'm afraid, is how KDE feels to me. Worse yet, KDE4 strikes me as significantly counter-intuitive. I'm aware that "intuitive" in interfaces is a matter of familiarity -- but I think it's relevant in this case, in that KDE and GNOME seem to a fair degree to have a need to cater to the familiarity of people who also use OSes like MS Windows and Apple MacOS X. While my primary sense of familiarity (and thus the "intuitive") isn't with MS and Apple OSes, they do kinda fill in the secondary and tertiary spots for me; KDE4 falls into line somewhere back around 20th for me. It seems to me like it has several configuration options lacking in something like MS Windows, and lacks several that something like MS Windows has -- but has made poor trade-offs, adding less important configuration options and removing more important options, based on what I've seen so far. This view of KDE4 is based my recent experience (a few days ago) of installing and configuring PC-BSD on a laptop for a friend. PC-BSD's default version of KDE4 is a newer iteration than what's in FreeBSD ports, so it certainly isn't a matter of the default install having a slightly older minor version number and needing to be upgraded. The somewhat broken functionality is a bit of a problem, too -- such as the Plasma Desktop Folder View's inability to just show the damned icons properly, the tendency of KDE to crash and restart when I try to make certain changes with widgets "unlocked", panels that might vanish from view when I try to move them but are apparently still running *somewhere*, and so on. I've never been much of a fan of KDE, ever since I discovered the joys of window managers that aren't derivative of the MS/Apple WIMP style, but KDE4 strikes me as a case of some visionary project manager stepping on his own virtual genitals. I don't know -- maybe I just don't "get" the new direction for KDE4. Maybe it's awesome for someone's purposes. It's terrible for mine. =2E . . not that I think GNOME 2.24 is any better. I'll stick with AHWM for now, long since abandoned by its developer, but so elegant in operation and configuration that it really doesn't even need any further development. It does what it needs to do, and doesn't screw around with a bunch of singing and dancing and backflips to distract me from the fact it doesn't do anything fundamentally new. Just one man's opinion. Yours is surely different. --=20 Chad Perrin [ content licensed PDL: http://pdl.apotheon.org ] Quoth Larry Wall: "Perl is, in intent, a cleaned up and summarized version of that wonderful semi-natural language known as 'Unix'." --vEao7xgI/oilGqZ+ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAkkNLyMACgkQ9mn/Pj01uKXCiwCgxJHbiLivhYJD20wjYltmxcHL Y2sAoMz+rk4HPdZz5XWUsf9hmV/2JhH5 =Yxr5 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --vEao7xgI/oilGqZ+--