From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sun Aug 9 23:29:50 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82D7499DA62 for ; Sun, 9 Aug 2015 23:29:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jordanhubbard@me.com) Received: from nk11p03mm-asmtp002.mac.com (nk11p03mm-asmtp002.mac.com [17.158.232.237]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6C6D6977; Sun, 9 Aug 2015 23:29:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jordanhubbard@me.com) Received: from [10.20.30.57] (75-101-82-48.static.sonic.net [75.101.82.48]) by nk11p03mm-asmtp002.mac.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 7.0.5.35.0 64bit (built Mar 31 2015)) with ESMTPSA id <0NSU00GGB6HAFG30@nk11p03mm-asmtp002.mac.com>; Sun, 09 Aug 2015 22:29:36 +0000 (GMT) X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:5.14.151,1.0.33,0.0.0000 definitions=2015-08-09_02:2015-08-07,2015-08-09,1970-01-01 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 spamscore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=7.0.1-1412110000 definitions=main-1508090392 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 MIME-version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 \(2104\)) Subject: Re: Sparc64 support From: Jordan Hubbard In-reply-to: <20150809215403.GC20238@server.rulingia.com> Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2015 15:29:34 -0700 Cc: Bill Sorenson , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, "K. Macy" , Kevin Bowling Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Message-id: <6C12EBFE-EAA9-4C12-9F03-1CB2C28C4A6E@me.com> References: <20150809215403.GC20238@server.rulingia.com> To: Peter Jeremy X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2104) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 10 Aug 2015 00:20:03 +0000 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2015 23:29:50 -0000 > On Aug 9, 2015, at 2:54 PM, Peter Jeremy wrote: >=20 > At this stage, it's not clear that SPARC has the critical mass of = interest > needed to ensure its ongoing viability. Continuing to support an > architecture incurs a non-zero cost to the Project as a whole so = continuing > to suppport SPARC needs to demonstrate a benefit to justify that cost. >=20 > The costs include: > - Whilst sparc64 remains tied to gcc4.2.1, FreeBSD as a whole can't = take > advantage of newer C constructs. I can speak to that a bit=E2=80=A6 I went through a bit of a kerfuffle = with the project when I was agitating to get libdispatch incorporated = into base so that the project could have a decent multi-threading = programming paradigm (with none of the perils of pthreads) at its core = on which to build future async, multicore-aware applications. That = was=E2=80=99t just a pipe dream, either, as I watched that exact = evolution occur (and continue) in OS X and iOS. It=E2=80=99s tried and = tested and it Just Works across a wider application base than any = Unix-derived system to date has ever even contemplated, much less = achieved. However, the need to support non-blocks aware compilers basically killed = the notion of pursuing that in the project. Yes, you can use = libdispatch without blocks, but it=E2=80=99s far less useful that way, = and since my personal needs are more than met by the amd64 architecture, = one that by any metric has become dominant in the industry, it was = simply far more logical to pursue that work in a fork (again!) and I = stopped agitating for it. Now, should FreeBSD start insisting that clang support is mandatory to = be a tier 1 architecture and that tier 2 architectures should build with = external toolchains (on which they can also build with NO_FOO where FOO = is any feature that requires clang) then perhaps that might be a good = time to start thinking about bringing some of the OS X technologies back = into the fold. Until then, FreeBSD will of necessity be occupying a = niche somewhere in-between the original FreeBSD, where we made a = deliberate choice to focus on Intel and only Intel, and NetBSD. - Jordan