From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Tue Apr 4 08:14:28 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD82AD2D8F2 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 2017 08:14:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from matt.churchyard@userve.net) Received: from smtp-a.userve.net (smtp-outbound.userve.net [217.196.1.22]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.userve.net", Issuer "Go Daddy Secure Certificate Authority - G2" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4433AB97; Tue, 4 Apr 2017 08:14:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from matt.churchyard@userve.net) Received: from owa.usd-group.com (owa.usd-group.com [217.196.1.2]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp-a.userve.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 64142A8D; Tue, 4 Apr 2017 09:14:19 +0100 (BST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=userve.net; s=201508; t=1491293659; bh=V+KCVs541Q4cMkk7brcTgTK2ITwWis6aH/z+4D5OSAU=; h=From:To:CC:Subject:Date:References:In-Reply-To; b=eR+I/QXgCiQX6OFeJ4sfsWIuctv9sy4nKEd+XyzNrJxWzQT+RkfYuQHhZwGCxFZLD DYBqhnDG+ukgKmEWC6wKtyiW1aupAyrKgakJ2priixxPxZvLa/J/uT9ZNID4Y5au2f TgEwjHLaF9Ugl+kRZbKCeWH8L4qNzgJo/+qc9nX8= Received: from SERVER.ad.usd-group.com (192.168.0.1) by SERVER.ad.usd-group.com (192.168.0.1) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.847.32; Tue, 4 Apr 2017 09:14:18 +0100 Received: from SERVER.ad.usd-group.com ([fe80::b19d:892a:6fc7:1c9]) by SERVER.ad.usd-group.com ([fe80::b19d:892a:6fc7:1c9%12]) with mapi id 15.00.0847.030; Tue, 4 Apr 2017 09:14:18 +0100 From: Matt Churchyard To: John CC: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: RE: Sendmail conf files Thread-Topic: Sendmail conf files Thread-Index: AQHSqYhJA05PurJ9FUaUzW3xtZ+p6KG0R/gAgACU6FA= Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2017 08:14:18 +0000 Message-ID: References: <481fef207e2e457cb4f8a689d0ce4373@SERVER.ad.usd-group.com> <20170403235624.GA94548@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <20170403235624.GA94548@FreeBSD.org> Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [192.168.0.10] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 04 Apr 2017 09:30:51 +0000 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2017 08:14:28 -0000 ----- Matt Churchyard's Original Message ----- > Hello, >=20 > Not sure if this is the right list for this.. >=20 > For me the most awkward part of updating a system using freebsd-update is= when it comes to merging files. The most common files that pop up seem to = be /etc/mail/sendmail.cf & /etc/mail/submit.cf, because these are included = in the base distribution and almost certainly change if you actually use Se= ndmail. > Simply don't use the same names.... in /etc/make.conf: > SENDMAIL_MC =3D /etc/mail/prodconf.mc > and the .cf file(s) will be regenerated. >YMMV, >Cheers I appreciate the response and could use that method on my own systems (alth= ough I probably won't need to now as I pretty much always use Postfix). It = doesn't really solve the original issue though. It's not exactly ideal to tell all users they should edit /etc/make.conf ju= st so they can use Sendmail and not have to mess about with cf files on eve= ry upgrade. (To be honest I got to the point where I used to just accept th= e merge even though it left errors in the config file, then went and ran /e= tc/mail/make to re-create everything. For a user that's easier that trying = to merge files in a terminal editor). As I said there is/has been a large e= ffort to make sure users don't have to edit base config files in FreeBSD so= that base can be updated without affecting user config or requiring mergin= g. Unless there's some awkward issue I'm not aware of, I don't really see w= hy the two .cf files are included in base in the first place, rather than g= enerated at runtime. I didn't really post this to fix my own problem, I'm just trying to suggest= something that may make upgrades easier for everyone. When running freebsd= -update these cf files are some of the very few files that regularly requir= e manual intervention. Matt > In most cases this sort of issue has been solved by providing "default fi= les" such as /etc/defaults/rc.conf, and letting the user override this with= files they create themselves. Obviously there is a concerted effort to mak= e sure users don't have to edit base files where possible so that they don'= t get these sort of issues. >=20 >=20 > For Sendmail, would it not make sense to remove these 2 .cf files from ba= se and update the sendmail rc.d script to run 'make install' in /etc/mail i= f they don't exist? It may also be nice if the freebsd.* files were stored = somewhere else such as /usr/share/sendmail, as these just causes confusion = about which files are actually used if you're new to it. >=20 >=20 > Personally I'm on the side that would rather have Sendmail removed entire= ly and replaced with a simple smtp submission daemon/lda but I think that d= iscussion has already been had. >=20 >=20 > - >=20 > Matt Churchyard