From owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Aug 23 13:55:43 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: current@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37017996 for ; Fri, 23 Aug 2013 13:55:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-ie0-f175.google.com (mail-ie0-f175.google.com [209.85.223.175]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0121F2921 for ; Fri, 23 Aug 2013 13:55:42 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ie0-f175.google.com with SMTP id u16so822082iet.20 for ; Fri, 23 Aug 2013 06:55:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:subject:mime-version:content-type:from :in-reply-to:date:cc:content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references :to; bh=JN4dJtjd07jauEc8cJ1vL6784Jannesp7AMElStjHJY=; b=UbmU7bxBpTfkE1/Oq/9T7XKzK4e4rSl+XDXBcEjEADRDezRcGvvDlyebdWqT1XKTbr CenbvQcm8b3zUAXqp7viQN8sY8YyCVRwQc6qX3x/vFED9DUFED20wVlSaL55ikqeYyo4 2sFFPxsZ9vpCVvHR5MeneA3CEOkaioxUF9NHcngy4swZLneg9p58Fv02tTVVi4aNrqiq q8WcEbph9AejkebBuL2y22ErFQhDqu4IkxYvwcc+T/2nWZIww8pTIodyNyLTbkWTFWyi ZdO8YVcgu+lXaLRPzGufZGk+WLfmGgnOgQfaH1UzCfjXmskGbHAeNzFFNGlyRvRz0oQw LW8g== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmldeWZNX0pXv05z7KTmU38iaTimm8h9fSLSnCN31j1iH/U2GqGJiwqjJ45/ureNJKA0Hwg X-Received: by 10.43.66.11 with SMTP id xo11mr1362127icb.21.1377266142281; Fri, 23 Aug 2013 06:55:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 53.imp.bsdimp.com (50-78-194-198-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net. [50.78.194.198]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id cl4sm52085igc.1.1969.12.31.16.00.00 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 23 Aug 2013 06:55:41 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Warner Losh Subject: Re: patch to add AES intrinsics to gcc Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1085) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Warner Losh In-Reply-To: <1377261014.1111.43.camel@revolution.hippie.lan> Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2013 07:55:40 -0600 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <20130822200902.GG94127@funkthat.com> <105E26EE-8471-49D3-AB57-FBE2779CF8D0@FreeBSD.org> <5CE4B5FA-9DA0-45E4-8D67-161E0829FE6B@FreeBSD.org> <52173C8D.20608@freebsd.org> <1377261014.1111.43.camel@revolution.hippie.lan> To: Ian Lepore X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1085) Cc: "re@FreeBSD.org Engineering Team" , current@FreeBSD.org, John-Mark Gurney , David Chisnall , toolchain@FreeBSD.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2013 13:55:43 -0000 On Aug 23, 2013, at 6:30 AM, Ian Lepore wrote: > On Fri, 2013-08-23 at 12:06 +0100, David Chisnall wrote: >> On 23 Aug 2013, at 11:42, Julian Elischer wrote: >>=20 >>> no, I believe we have said that 10 would ship with clang by default. = NO mention was made about gcc being absent, and I am uncomfortable with = taking that step yet. Having gcc just present, will not hurt you.. even = after it is gone we will need to support those who will be replacing = clang with newer versions of gcc in hteir own products. >>=20 >> The plan is not to delete gcc from the tree, it is to disable = building gcc by default when clang is the system compiler. If you are = building products then you are perfectly at liberty to set WITH_GCC=3Dyes = in your src.conf. >>=20 >> Our gcc is from 2007. It has no C11, no C++11 support. It has bugs = in its atomic generation so you can't use it sensibly without lots of = inline assembly (which it doesn't support for newer architectures) for = multithreaded things. >>=20 >> Our libstdc++ is ancient and doesn't work with modern C++ codebases. = Putting them in the base system means that people will use them. If = anyone wants them to remain, then speak now and this will be taken as = your volunteering to: >>=20 >> - Maintain our forks of both gcc and libstdc++ >> - Handle every single PR that is filed by people using these >>=20 >> If you are willing to do this, then that's great. If not, then you = are asking other people to support ancient codebases that they are not = using. >>=20 >> David >>=20 >=20 > I don't understand, you start by pointing out that gcc will still be = in > the tree and usable, then you go on to point out that it it won't be > supported or maintained unless someone volunteers to do that, and you > seem to be doing your best to discourage anyone from volunteering. > Doesn't that sort of moot the point that the source isn't being = deleted? If it is in the tree it's gotta work. And it has to be in the tree for = !x86 architectures. So on or off for x86 doesn't really add to the load = at all, and the C++/C11 stuff is a red herring. If it isn't cc, then = people wanting clang by default won't care... And besides, ports aren't completely ready to kill it, so it has to work = for them. Warner=