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Date:      Mon, 15 Oct 2007 15:43:21 +0200
From:      Alexander Leidinger <netchild@FreeBSD.org>
To:        Scott Long <scottl@samsco.org>
Cc:        Wilko Bulte <wb@freebie.xs4all.nl>, Poul-Henning Kamp <phk@phk.freebsd.dk>, src-committers@FreeBSD.org, cvs-all@FreeBSD.org, cvs-src@FreeBSD.org
Subject:   Re: cvs commit: src/etc Makefile sensorsd.conf src/etc/defaults rc.conf src/etc/rc.d Makefile sensorsd src/lib/libc/gen sysctl.3 src/sbin/sysctl sysctl.8 sysctl.c src/share/man/man5 rc.conf.5 src/share/man/man9 Makefile sensor_attach.9 src/sys/conf files ...
Message-ID:  <20071015154321.tl6x9nb9lwwgk8o8@webmail.leidinger.net>
In-Reply-To: <47131B2F.1060900@samsco.org>
References:  <24712.1192384461@critter.freebsd.dk> <20071015081507.yi9t4ot8asg0wcw4@webmail.leidinger.net> <47131B2F.1060900@samsco.org>

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Quoting Scott Long <scottl@samsco.org> (from Mon, 15 Oct 2007 01:47:59 -0600=
):

> Alexander Leidinger wrote:
>> Quoting Poul-Henning Kamp <phk@phk.freebsd.dk> (from Sun, 14 Oct  =20
>> 2007 17:54:21 +0000):

>>> listen to the various mumblings about putting RAID-controller status
>>> under sensors framework.
>>
>> What's wrong with this? Currently each RAID driver has to come up  =20
>> with his own way of displaying the RAID status. It's like saying  =20
>> that each network driver has to implement/display the stuff you can =20
>>  see with ifconfig in its own way, instead of using the proper  =20
>> network driver interface for this.
>>
>
> For the love of God, please don't use RAID as an example to support your
> argument for the sensord framework.  Representing RAID state is several
> orders of magnitude more involved than representing network state.
> There are also landmines in the OpenBSD bits of RAID support that are
> best left out of FreeBSD, unless you like alienating vendors and risking
> legal action.  Leave it alone.  Please.  I don't care what you do with
> lmsensors or cpu power settings or whatever.  Leave RAID out of it.

Talking about RAID status is not talking about alienating vendors. I =20
don't talk about alienating vendors and I don't intent to do. You may =20
not be able to display a full blown RAID status with the sensors =20
framework, but it allows for a generic "wors/works not" or =20
"OK/degraded" status display in drivers we have the source for. This =20
is enough for status monitoring (e.g., nagios). I don't know if you =20
talk about the OpenBSD bio framework or about some reverse engineered =20
RAID drivers in OpenBSD (or bad mails from them to some vendors). From =20
an user point of view the bio framework (as in "a generic interface =20
for the sysadmin to do RAID stuff", and not as in "the concrete =20
implementation in OpenBSD") is something you want to have. I don't =20
think that it is a bad idea to port it (and improve it). OpenBSD has =20
some RAID controllers converted to it and the framework already =20
represents an usable interface for a lot of cases. I don't know if it =20
needs improvement or not, I don't know if it can cover all current =20
feature needs for such a framework for all possible RAID systems (most =20
probably not), but it would be an improvement for vendors which want =20
to write support for their RAID hardware as they don't have to come up =20
with their own BSD code to manage those parts. And we could improve =20
"our bio framwork" (if we had/get one) based upon vendor feedback (we =20
already improved our network interfaces upon vendor feedback, haven't =20
we?). In case you talk about porting some "alienated" raid drivers =20
from OpenBSD... I agree that it is not a good idea to kick a vendor in =20
the ass (a vendor which provides some kind of FreeBSD support... if =20
there's a driver for raid hardware for which the vendor doesn't =20
provide any support for a driver for FreeBSD at all, it depends upon =20
the specific driver code from OpenBSD if it is a good idea to port it =20
or not).

So in short: having a generic framework would be beneficial for =20
vendors. Kicking vendors in the ass is not my intention. Feel free to =20
document pitfalls in the RAID stuff in OpenBSD, so that nobody in =20
FreeBSd-land makes the same mistakes (but is able to get good parts if =20
the idea of an unified interface into FreeBSD).

Sorry for not taking the time to write a more readable mail.

Bye,
Alexander.

--=20
http://www.Leidinger.net  Alexander @ Leidinger.net: PGP ID =3D B0063FE7
http://www.FreeBSD.org     netchild @ FreeBSD.org  : PGP ID =3D 72077137
BEAUTY:
=09What's in your eye when you have a bee in your hand.




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