From owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Wed May 4 09:38:21 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E321916A4CE for ; Wed, 4 May 2005 09:38:21 +0000 (GMT) Received: from orb.pobox.com (orb.pobox.com [207.8.226.5]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88FF443D5C for ; Wed, 4 May 2005 09:38:21 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from b.candler@pobox.com) Received: from orb (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by orb.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50CFA8B8; Wed, 4 May 2005 05:38:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from billdog.local.linnet.org (dsl-212-74-113-65.access.uk.tiscali.com [212.74.113.65]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by orb.sasl.smtp.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BF6C8D; Wed, 4 May 2005 05:38:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brian by billdog.local.linnet.org with local (Exim 4.43 (FreeBSD)) id 1DTGMK-0000Mm-VX; Wed, 04 May 2005 10:40:00 +0100 Date: Wed, 4 May 2005 10:40:00 +0100 From: Brian Candler To: Randy Bush Message-ID: <20050504094000.GA1143@uk.tiscali.com> References: <6.1.0.6.2.20050426233321.084e9210@cobalt.antimatter.net> <51899.216.177.243.42.1114584317.localmail@webmail.dnswatch.com> <6.1.0.6.2.20050427001118.0327cd50@cobalt.antimatter.net> <52515.216.177.243.42.1114586501.localmail@webmail.dnswatch.com> <61359.216.177.243.35.1114722481.localmail@webmail.dnswatch.com> <20050429105416.GA94049@wedge.madpilot.net> <20050502195456.GA1226@uk.tiscali.com> <17015.43023.924186.422635@roam.psg.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <17015.43023.924186.422635@roam.psg.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: boot banner project X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 May 2005 09:38:22 -0000 On Tue, May 03, 2005 at 06:34:23AM -1000, Randy Bush wrote: > > One of the reasons I ditched Linux several years ago was the way Linux > > shifts constantly. A good example is the firewalling code: once upon a > > time there was ipfw. Then that was replaced by ipfwadm. Then that was > > discarded, and replaced by ipchains. Which in turn was discarded and > > replaced by iptables. (Or was that the other way round? I don't follow it > > closely these days) > > yep. another way: this sounds as if you see freebsd as a workhorse > production system as opposed to a hobby where the more of your time > it absorbs the better it is. Yes, that's a fair summary. However, historically there was a big up-front investment in FreeBSD until you get to that point. I think this is much less so nowadays. In particular, the handbook is excellent, and a lot of essential utilities which you had to install as add-ons are now included as standard (e.g. gzip, tar with -z flag) Now the only essential package to install is a POSIX shell with interactive command history - i.e. "bash" - and it looks like /bin/sh has now gained that capability too, although sadly not tab-completion. It's still fair to say that the tools for [install, upgrade, configure] have a number of problems, especially for those new to FreeBSD. Regards, Brian.