Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2001 23:12:14 +0100 From: Brian Somers <brian@Awfulhak.org> To: Josef Karthauser <joe@tao.org.uk>, Richard Hodges <rh@matriplex.com>, Kris Kennaway <kris@obsecurity.org>, Ted Mittelstaedt <tedm@toybox.placo.com>, Jordan Hubbard <jkh@osd.bsdi.com> Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, wes@softweyr.com, ewayte@pegasus.cc.ucf.edu, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, Brian Somers <brian@Awfulhak.org>, Paul Richards <paul@freebsd-services.co.uk> Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral Message-ID: <200107072212.f67MCEn37752@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org> In-Reply-To: Message from Josef Karthauser <joe@tao.org.uk> of "Fri, 06 Jul 2001 22:55:47 BST." <20010706225547.B1799@tao.org.uk>
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Josef Karthauser <joe@tao.org.uk> wrote: > On Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 02:28:18PM -0700, Kris Kennaway wrote: > >=20 > > In the past, the officially blessed CD distributor was kicking back > > money directly to FreeBSD; whatever happens in the future with respect > > to CD distribution, I think we should make sure this continues to > > happen in an economically sustainable way. > >=20 > > FSL, I believe, are keen to keep up this tradition also (although I > can't speak for what projects they will be supporting). To qualify this (a little), we (FSL == FreeBSD Services Ltd) will be distributing a FreeBSD-4.4 DVD set. The profits will be used to fund developers (Paul Richards, Mark Murray and I to start with) initially in the form of our wages, but eventually in more diverse ways that are beneficial to the project at large. We also plan to adopt the give-free-DVDs-to-all-developers approach subject to our financial success. To give people confidence in our abilities, we gave away about 350 FreeBSD-4.3 DVDs at Usenix last week -- samples of what's to come (and proof that we can produce). http://www.FreeBSD-services.com/ has more details (please feel free to register for further updates). Richard Hodges <rh@matriplex.com> wrote: > And as far as distribution goes, if my vote counts, I would suggest > that anyone should have the right to sell (or give away) copies for > whatever price they want. The more copies, the better! I fail to > see why FreeBSD distribution should be "guided" to certain entities > based on their political contributions. FSL have thought quite a bit about this -- what's acceptable as a FreeBSD release. We need some sort of balance. On one hand, we (the FreeBSD project) want to encourage distributors to produce copies of FreeBSD with added-value. On the other hand, we don't want to end up with the linux-effect. The idea of producing standard distributions on which vendors can base their projects means that we can keep control of the base system - ensuring that the evolution of different flavours of FreeBSD are based on what *we* want, not on what someone's marketing department wants. For example, a good way for a vendor to build their own flavour of FreeBSD might be to provide a ``Vendor-Desktop'' port/package that people can select from sysinstall to give them everything that the vendor wants to provide as standard, maybe even including proprietary stuff. So I think the idea of an ``official'' distribution is good, but only insofar as that implies that the distribution contains a specific base system. Anyone who mucks about with that official base system in a way that's not controlled by the user should not be allowed to call their distribution ``official''. Kris Kennaway <kris@obsecurity.org> wrote: > What's likely to happen if we let it is that a number of entities will > publish verbatim copies of the "officially produced" ISO images, and > do so at production cost + some profit margin which only feeds back > into their own pockets. This means that if the larger CD distribution > facilities like, say, CheapBytes could do this more cheaply than > someone like, say, DaemonNews, the latter will find it very hard to > compete without losing money unless they can feed off of some kind of > "preferred vendor" status. Entities which are more friendly to the > FreeBSD project (like DaemonNews) and who may want to donate a portion > of the proceeds to the Foundation will have to take it out of their > profit margins and will lose money relative to those that don't. > > In the past, the officially blessed CD distributor was kicking back > money directly to FreeBSD; whatever happens in the future with respect > to CD distribution, I think we should make sure this continues to > happen in an economically sustainable way. I don't think we'll get away with ``favouring'' certain distributors. It's not really with the spirit of things. As Jordan has said, the kick-back contributions have always been very much appreciated, but not based on any official agreements. I personally believe that the distributors who contribute stuff back will continue to be favoured - but maybe I'm being idealistic. Ted Mittelstaedt <tedm@toybox.placo.com> wrote: > So, are you ready for $100-per-box FreeBSD distros? Do you think the > FreeBSD userbase is? Boy, now THAT's sure an advance for the customer! I think you're over-reacting Ted. FSL are planning on selling the two-DVD set for around $40.00. We may even be putting a CD on the other side of the initial disc (that may put costs up by a few $$, but will benefit more people), but the FreeBSD community will continue to get reasonable value. The $100 vendors will just simply sink. Jordan Hubbard <jkh@osd.bsdi.com> wrote: > Also, when Wes said the following: > > > Specifically, we need a Product Manager who can shepherd FreeBSD through > > the release process, and coordinate with CD-ROM distributor(s) who are > > I think he perhaps wasn't clear on the fact that I'll still be > "shepherding FreeBSD through the release process" and working with > many of the very same FreeBSD volunteers to organize the bits, there > just won't be any "official tie" to any one distributor. Given > WindRiver's recent redirection of orders to BSD Central which started > all this fuss, it's not even clear to us that they want to stay in the > CDROM business anyway, but if they or anyone else (like the DVD folks) > want to "coordinate" with us then they can do so simply by sending us, > the volunteer release engineering and QA team, email with their > requirements. We'll do as much to oblige them as the project has > always done for any FreeBSD customer who's approached it with a > reasonable request for increasing FreeBSD's mindshare or ease of use. I think this approach is key, and reflects what the FreeBSD community has been doing from day one -- part of what attracted me to the project in the first place. We're all here because we enjoy doing our bit for the project. We're now at a point where people are likely to start marketing us in more diverse ways than before, and we should try to get on top of the situation before it gets on top of us. We have some interesting times coming up in the next few months :) -- Brian <brian@freebsd-services.com> <brian@Awfulhak.org> http://www.freebsd-services.com/ <brian@[uk.]FreeBSD.org> Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour ! <brian@[uk.]OpenBSD.org> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message
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