From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Sun Dec 23 09:21:59 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C6301352F68 for ; Sun, 23 Dec 2018 09:21:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (mailman.ysv.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::50:5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A849C6AA1B for ; Sun, 23 Dec 2018 09:21:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id 6BF351352F67; Sun, 23 Dec 2018 09:21:58 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: current@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A63C1352F66 for ; Sun, 23 Dec 2018 09:21:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from smtp.des.no (smtp.des.no [194.63.250.102]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 915106AA12; Sun, 23 Dec 2018 09:21:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from next.des.no (smtp.des.no [194.63.250.102]) by smtp.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CFCA1FC88; Sun, 23 Dec 2018 09:21:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: by next.des.no (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 4B3E182D5; Sun, 23 Dec 2018 10:21:56 +0100 (CET) From: =?utf-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?= To: Cy Schubert Cc: Yuri Pankov , Mark Peek , Enji Cooper , Warner Losh , freebsd-current Subject: Re: workaround for VMware WS NAT bug triggered by OpenSSH 7.8p1 changes In-Reply-To: <201812230904.wBN94uKM014173@slippy.cwsent.com> (Cy Schubert's message of "Sun, 23 Dec 2018 01:04:56 -0800") References: <201812230904.wBN94uKM014173@slippy.cwsent.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.1 (berkeley-unix) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2018 10:21:56 +0100 Message-ID: <865zvkpphn.fsf@next.des.no> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 915106AA12 X-Spamd-Bar: ----- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of des@des.no designates 194.63.250.102 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=des@des.no X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-5.20 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[des.no]; RCPT_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[6]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: smtp.des.no]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.36)[0.364,0]; IP_SCORE(-3.35)[ip: (-8.86), ipnet: 194.63.250.0/24(-4.43), asn: 12996(-3.45), country: NO(-0.01)]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; ASN(0.00)[asn:12996, ipnet:194.63.250.0/24, country:NO] X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2018 09:21:59 -0000 Cy Schubert writes: > I know our code is full of workarounds and theirs probably too. The=20 > question is should we? IMO no. Unfortunately, the world is imperfect and does not care about your opinion. 90% of the hardware we run on deviates from the spec in some way or another and requires workarounds in the kernel. We even have a whole system of quirks for disks and USB devices. Libfetch contains workarounds for buggy HTTP servers. OpenSSH has hundreds of lines of code devoted to identifying the server and selecting workarounds to apply. Without those workarounds, FreeBSD would not be a viable piece of software. Wishing they weren't needed is a waste of time and energy. DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav - des@des.no