Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 11:21:35 EDT From: Peter Christie <christie@idsi.net> To: grog@lemis.com Cc: FreeBSD-Questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What do we need in a FreeBSD desktop? (was: Peter heads back to M$FT WinBloze [support groups]) Message-ID: <Infinity Data Systems WebMail-1.0.1-10279560953d455d7f14579@mail.idsi.net> In-Reply-To: <20020729102059.GA73294@freepuppy.bellavista.cz>
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On 29 Jul 2002 06:21 EDT you wrote: > > Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 12:00:16 0930 > > From: Greg 'groggy' Lehey <grog@lemis.com> > > To: Peter Leftwich <Hostmaster@Video2Video.Com> > > Cc: Michael Wells <mwvw@adelphia.net>, > > FreeBSD LIST <FreeBSD-Questions@FreeBSD.Org> > > Subject: What do we need in a FreeBSD desktop? (was: Peter heads back to M$FT WinBloze [support groups]) > > > The real problem I have is knowing which of the over 7,000 ports you > > want to install to get "basic" desktop functionality. > > yes. and this is the problem with stuff like your > instant-workstation port. you can't please everyone, and i dare to > say that any such thing will only please a tiny minority of people. > probably the reason you haven't got much feedback on the port. > > > Some time ago I created the "instant-workstation" port, but didn't > > make much noise about it. instant-workstation basically installs a > > number of dependent ports (see below for a list) and then does some > > minor configuration. Over the past couple of days I've been > > installing a brand new machine (laptop) for a friend, and I've been > > looking at the rough edges. Here's what I've found: > > > > 1. Some of the dependent ports don't build cleanly. This obviously > > requires some attention. > > yes. last time i tried (two months ago), netscape port was broken > (or was it FORBIDDEN for a reason i forgot? dunno) > > > 2. "instant" is a misnomer, at least if you build from source. I'm > > building on a Dell Inspiron 7500 with a 600 MHz processor, and it > > takes over 12 hours. > > as suggested by someone else before, it could use packages where > possible, but that would make it fall out of the ports system > pretty much. > > > 3. Once it's built, it works "out of the box". I've installed the > > XFree86 4 port, and installation is really nothing more than this: > > > > # X -configure > > # mv /root/XF86Config.new /etc > > # echo exec kdestart > ~me/.xinitrc > > > > You can then run startx or xdm and end up in a relatively complete > > kde environment. > > this still makes it lag behind most of linux distros in terms of > "ease of use". the (new) user still has to know to perform these steps. > note that i don't care. i don't use linux for a reason. > > > So what's in instant-workstation? Currently I have: > > > > acroread > > bash > > cdrecord > > dos2unix > > emacs > > fetchmail > > gs > > grip > > gimp > > gv > > gpg > > ispell > > startkde > > mkisofs > > mount_smbfs > > mutt > > netscape > > xtset > > xmms > > xv > > > > My questions to you: is there anything missing? > > inevitably, yes. plus there are things *i* don't use on that list. > shell, for example. i don't use bash. if you want to make the port > attractive for me, you have to let me choose my favorite shell. > > if, however, i have to select a shell, i can > % (cd /usr/ports/shells/chooseone && make install clean) > just as well. same with the other software. > > repeat with all the other programs on the list. > > > Has anybody tried instant-workstation? I'd be interested in > > suggestions about how to improve it. > > you could perhaps abstract the installed software away into software > categories similar to the /usr/ports directory: > > which shell do you want to use? (ash bash tcsh ksh zsh): > which browser do you want to use? (...): > > etc. but one can install the ports the usual way just as well. > > a big boon would be a possibility to configure the ports from here. > that would probably require a change to the ports system: right now > you can only tell what knobs a port features by reading the > Makefile. > > -- > FreeBSD 4.6-STABLE > 12:03PM up 12 days, 22:22, 4 users, load averages: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message As an aspiring hacker, I find the challenge of learing FreeBSD very rewarding in and of itself, but would I put it on my 'home' computer for my wife and kids to use? not as it is now . . . it's hard enough keeping them up and runnning with windoze, and the kids are into games mostly, and FreeBSD is not a good gaming platform. I could probably get the wife converted, as she mostly uses the net for web browsing and e-mail. But the idea here is to set up a "convert" (be it from M$, Mac, or otherwise) with a 'basic' desktop system that can be up and running with minimum effort and complications. This would let more people 'use' FreeBSD as a desktop, and provide feedback for the developers. FreeBSD will never be a great desktop OS if you don't build a huge user-base, which will then get you support from manufacturers for drivers and such, as well as the 'other' software companies for user-land apps / games. With the many open-source/freeware applications available for FreeBSD, this would involve a substaintial 'weeding' process, and yes, 'your' favorites may not make the cut, but there are a great many wise people that have dedicated much time to FreeBSD and I'm sure that a consensus would produce a highly 'useable' desktop distro. As a new user, you're better off running the same user-land apps as the 'majority', as getting help with any questions will be easier. And, honestly, if you're considering delving into *nix of any variety, you're probably somewhat ahead of the learning curve to begin with. So customizing your new OS should be relativly easy. FreeBSD wouldn't change as far as the 'power-user' is concerned, but would be simple to install and use for the average, new to *nix, 'desktop-user'. Pete C To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message
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