From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sat Jan 11 12:50:35 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A7421E926B for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2020 12:50:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jpaetzel@FreeBSD.org) Received: from out4-smtp.messagingengine.com (out4-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.28]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47w07t5Yj5z42wn; Sat, 11 Jan 2020 12:50:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jpaetzel@FreeBSD.org) Received: from compute2.internal (compute2.nyi.internal [10.202.2.42]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7CEB20E7B; Sat, 11 Jan 2020 07:50:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailfrontend2 ([10.202.2.163]) by compute2.internal (MEProxy); Sat, 11 Jan 2020 07:50:33 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender :x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=6mljAiTB4Q5tWXFEPeP+7mRqaxMZGysPEjMUTH/oF Xw=; b=lRwath7lzTxW7esCIpLiCEAHZd421FnM51q1c9PNOVKL0ezuj9t27RKKe Cu4iMkmICNBe/o2igAAbnch3RpxD7fVsMd80a6WxBsA0zg6PHM5BU/E2c1wsGrxb aJWkxUORyGmN0o9xs/qBkwxHHI3rwF29WTheqchKBfRq3BW2iN9y3rr+X7KDPvhw KQz41Wp2IWZxCmF/GtrtNRTh6av7/hrzgdetQ0Rhulk+1Hc2sCIqScIQWMh0FLg6 XDqtCx15jvlWydiS5QPiFsqQGf3XZjVGQs/+ee3xt7m9JLoYjtZTRnk1XOMcXUky suzMnWy6oJh33nXv7ARJ3GEBDB0rg== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedufedrvdeihedggeefucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucenucfjughrpegtgffhggfufffkfhgjvffosehtqh hmtdhhtdejnecuhfhrohhmpeflohhshhcurfgrvghtiigvlhcuoehjphgrvghtiigvlhes hfhrvggvuefuffdrohhrgheqnecuffhomhgrihhnpehfrghsthhmrghilhdrtghomhenuc fkphepudekgedruddttddrheefrddvleenucfrrghrrghmpehmrghilhhfrhhomhepjhhp rggvthiivghlsefhrhgvvgeuufffrdhorhhgnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptd X-ME-Proxy: Received: from [192.168.133.203] (unknown [184.100.53.29]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 6C27730600A8; Sat, 11 Jan 2020 07:50:33 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: Josh Paetzel Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Subject: Re: open-vm-tools in base Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2020 06:50:32 -0600 Message-Id: <5822F9CC-4739-475D-A88A-A504E492A12E@FreeBSD.org> References: <20200111.122802.721369381057911241.hrs@allbsd.org> Cc: "jpaetzel@freebsd.org" , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <20200111.122802.721369381057911241.hrs@allbsd.org> To: Hiroki Sato X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (17C54) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 47w07t5Yj5z42wn X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.88 / 15.00]; local_wl_from(0.00)[FreeBSD.org]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.91)[-0.909,0]; ASN(0.00)[asn:11403, ipnet:66.111.4.0/24, country:US]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.97)[-0.972,0] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2020 12:50:35 -0000 >=20 > On Jan 10, 2020, at 9:31 PM, Hiroki Sato wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BF"Josh Paetzel" wrote > in <46480be7-b1a1-4da8-97ea-c4b97b0b997c@www.fastmail.com>: >=20 > jp> I've socialized putting emulators/open-vm-tools-nox11 in base to a > jp> small group of developers and gotten positive feedback, so I'm > jp> widening the audience. > jp> > jp> Proposal: Put emulators/open-vm-tools-nox11 in the base system of > jp> FreeBSD > jp> > jp> This port contains kernel modules and a binary to ease running FreeBSD= > jp> as a VM in a VMware virtualized environment. VMware supports this > jp> port by directly maintaining the code for it, however they do not > jp> include the FreeBSD version of the tools in the hypervisors > jp> anymore. (You can't just click "install guest tools" from the VMware > jp> management interface) > jp> > jp> Because these kernel modules are out of tree they are broken with some= > jp> regularity by changes to HEAD. By putting a version of them in tree > jp> changes to HEAD that broke the drivers and kernel modules would be > jp> more obvious to developers. > jp> > jp> I have never heard of a drawback or reason why you wouldn't want to > jp> run these tools. The main reason I see them not installed is due to > jp> people not knowing about them or forgetting to install them, or > jp> running VMs in environments where installing 3rd party software that > jp> needs an internet link is problematic. > jp> > jp> I'd continue to proxy changes back upstream as I've been doing for > jp> some time now. > jp> > jp> There is some precedent for this. Driver(s?) that were once a part of= > jp> the tools have been moved to base already. The VMXNET3 driver is an > jp> example of this. Also, the RC scripts that load the tools and start > jp> the userland daemons run a VMware included binary to check if the > jp> platform is supported by the tools, and just don't start them if it's > jp> an unsupported platform, so there's no danger to just trying to start > jp> them blindly across the default installs. >=20 > if_vmx was one ported from OpenBSD, not from open-vm-tools. VMXNET3 > driver of open-vm-tools was maintained separately and removed > recently. >=20 Ok, thanks for clarifying that. I=E2=80=99d modify my statement to be =E2=80= =9Cfunctionality the tools provided has been moved to base, ala VMXNET3=E2=80= =9D In the bad old days you had to create the VM with an e1000 NIC, install the t= ools. Change rc.conf, shutdown the VM. Change the VM hardware and power it b= ack on. These days you can select VMXNET3 and it just works.=20 > jp> Since emulators/open-vm-tools (the master port to > jp> emulators/open-vm-tools-nox11) depends on X11 and is not a candidate > jp> to include in the base system, I'd like to keep the ability to install= > jp> the package/port for both open-vm-tools and open-vm-tools-nox11 and > jp> let the user select which one is started. >=20 > I personally love to see open-vm-tools in the base system because it > improves user's out-of-the-box experience. As long as it is possible > to install emulators/open-vm-tools to override the stock version, I > see no harmful effect for both users who do not use VMware and ones > who want to use the latest version of open-vm-tools for some reason. >=20 > However, one thing I want to point out is that open-vm-tools is not > under BSDL. LGPL for the userland utilities and libraries, and GPL > for the kernel modules. More specifically, the vmmemctl driver for > FreeBSD is GPL'd, and vmblock is under 2-clause BSDL. Do we accept > GPL'd kernel modules? >=20 > Interestingly, modules for Solaris are under CDDL. When FreeBSD > Foundation visited VMware a while ago, they said GPL (or LGPL) was > chosen for compatibility with Linux kernel and they might be able to > release pre-GPL version of the source code under BSDL because they > wanted vendors/developer communities to maintain open-vm-tools > together. I am not sure if this is still relevant because it was > several years ago, but if we seriously think importing the kernel > drivers and maintaining them actively, asking it again might be worth > doing. >=20 > -- Hiroki I am aware of the licensing issue. VMware is motivated to get the tools into= the base system. They=E2=80=99ll dual license the current code to help faci= litate that. (They want something in return, a CI environment set up so they= can test FreeBSD on commit. Currently I build packages for them manually wh= en they request) I was not aware the Foundation had visited with VMware. It might be worth me= syncing up directly with the Foundation on this. Can you get a meeting sche= duled with the appropriate people on the Foundation side? Thanks, Josh Paetzel FreeBSD - The Power to Serve=