From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Fri Aug 16 09:21:17 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 794D8C60E4 for ; Fri, 16 Aug 2019 09:21:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) Received: from mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (mailman.nyi.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::50:13]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 468yVj144Yz418K for ; Fri, 16 Aug 2019 09:21:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) Received: by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) id 248EDC60E2; Fri, 16 Aug 2019 09:21:17 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24519C60E1 for ; Fri, 16 Aug 2019 09:21:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) Received: from kib.kiev.ua (kib.kiev.ua [IPv6:2001:470:d5e7:1::1]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 468yVh1J7Gz418J for ; Fri, 16 Aug 2019 09:21:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) Received: from tom.home (kib@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by kib.kiev.ua (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id x7G9L7I2051903 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 16 Aug 2019 12:21:11 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.10.3 kib.kiev.ua x7G9L7I2051903 Received: (from kostik@localhost) by tom.home (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id x7G9L7r3051901; Fri, 16 Aug 2019 12:21:07 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) X-Authentication-Warning: tom.home: kostik set sender to kostikbel@gmail.com using -f Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2019 12:21:07 +0300 From: Konstantin Belousov To: "Rodney W. Grimes" Cc: nonameless@ukr.net, current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Stop installing /usr/bin/clang Message-ID: <20190816092107.GP2738@kib.kiev.ua> References: <20190816081712.GN2738@kib.kiev.ua> <201908160914.x7G9EcQd029929@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <201908160914.x7G9EcQd029929@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.12.1 (2019-06-15) X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_00, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED,FORGED_GMAIL_RCVD,FREEMAIL_FROM, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on tom.home X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 468yVh1J7Gz418J X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=fail reason="No valid SPF, No valid DKIM" header.from=gmail.com (policy=none); spf=softfail (mx1.freebsd.org: 2001:470:d5e7:1::1 is neither permitted nor denied by domain of kostikbel@gmail.com) smtp.mailfrom=kostikbel@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.98 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; DMARC_POLICY_SOFTFAIL(0.10)[gmail.com : No valid SPF, No valid DKIM,none]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; HAS_XAW(0.00)[]; R_SPF_SOFTFAIL(0.00)[~all]; IP_SCORE_FREEMAIL(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.98)[-0.978,0]; IP_SCORE(0.00)[ip: (-2.57), ipnet: 2001:470::/32(-4.47), asn: 6939(-3.04), country: US(-0.05)]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:6939, ipnet:2001:470::/32, country:US]; FREEMAIL_CC(0.00)[ukr.net]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2019 09:21:17 -0000 On Fri, Aug 16, 2019 at 02:14:38AM -0700, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > > On Fri, Aug 16, 2019 at 08:57:13AM +0300, nonameless@ukr.net wrote: > > > I see the same thing with base?/usr/bin/ld and?/usr/local/bin/ld from binutils. > > Yes but a direct ld use is very rare. When it is needed, usually the > > level of hackery applied is already high enough for the user to already > > know what she does. I did not see it causing issues practically, while > > multiple clangs in the path cause real problems. > > Though I have accepted the change, I have now heard this "multiple foo > in path" argument twice, could you please elaborate on it? I already did that more than once. Please read the review. > > If /usr/bin /bin are first I should get base stuff, > if /usr/local/bin are first I should get local stuff, > what exactly is this "real problems" your refering too? You cannot mandate the path elements order for user, there are multiple conflicting requirements which create loop in the elements ordering. Removing clang from /usr/bin removes one of the requirement. People have to put ~/bin in front of their $PATH and create symlink, which raises questions why should they do that, and makes awful experience for starting developing on FreeBSD. > > Is it that something is flipping paths around? If so that > should be fixed! People have been using path to pick which > overload order they prefer for decades, and if we have some > how broken this.. well that should get fixed asap, not > removing stuff out of base because something is broken by > incorrect path manipulations. > > Regards, > Rod > > > --- Original message --- > > > From: "Konstantin?Belousov"? > > > Date: 15?August?2019,?19:48:37 > > > > > > Please look at https://reviews.freebsd.org/D21060 > > > I propose to stop installing /usr/bin/clang, clang++, clang-cpp. > > > > > > It probably does not matter when all your software comes from ports or > > > packages, but is actually very annoying when developing on FreeBSD. > > > In particular, you never know which `clang' is called in the user > > > environment, because it depends on the $PATH elements ordering. > > > > > > To clear some confusion: this has nothing to do with not installing > > > compiler from base, /usr/bin/c{c,++,pp} are still there after the change > > > is applied. It only to make clang on par with gcc, and to remove one > > > thing that was quite time-consuming in multi-target environment for me > > > during porting something large in FreeBSD userspace. > > > _______________________________________________ > > > freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list > > > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current > > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > _______________________________________________ > > freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list > > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > > > > > -- > Rod Grimes rgrimes@freebsd.org