Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 11:51:26 +0100 From: Nik Clayton <nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk> To: Tim Gerchmez <fewtch@serv.net>, Nik Clayton <nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk>, Donald Burr <dburr@POBoxes.com>, DrAcO <XDrAcOX@mci2000.COM> Cc: newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Installing X-Windows Message-ID: <19980614115126.28720@nothing-going-on.org> In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980613223112.007e1270@mx.serv.net>; from Tim Gerchmez on Sat, Jun 13, 1998 at 10:31:12PM -0700 References: <3.0.5.32.19980613015739.007e36a0@mx.serv.net> <3581B36E.C76B5891@mci2000.COM> <XFMail.980612200212.dburr@POBoxes.com> <3.0.5.32.19980613015739.007e36a0@mx.serv.net> <19980613111334.15162@nothing-going-on.org> <3.0.5.32.19980613223112.007e1270@mx.serv.net>
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On Sat, Jun 13, 1998 at 10:31:12PM -0700, Tim Gerchmez wrote:
> At 11:13 AM 6/13/98 +0100, you wrote:
> >> Also of mention in FreeBSD is xdm, a windows manager that can help
> >> integrate several different X-clients.
> >
> >xdm isn't a window manager.
>
> Well, true. Let me restate. It's a Window Manager manager. Better?
Nope. I'm being pedantic, but since this is a newbies forum I think that's
necessary.
>From xdm(1)
Xdm manages a collection of X displays, which may be on
the local host or remote servers. The design of xdm was
guided by the needs of X terminals as well as the X Con-
sortium standard XDMCP, the X Display Manager Control Pro-
tocol. Xdm provides services similar to those provided by
init, getty and login on character terminals: prompting
for login name and password, authenticating the user, and
running a ``session.''
which is not what an X Window Manager does. A window manager is responsible
for the 'decorations' around your windows (title bars, close buttons and
so on) and the extra functionality that allows you to move windows,
iconise them, put them on different workspaces/virtual desktops etc.
> >At its simplest, xdm is a graphical replacement
> >for getty and login, letting you log in to X straight away, with no
> >intermediate console login
>
> How would you set it up to do that, if *root* has to log in first via the
> console to start it?
Root doesn't have to (well, not via the console anyway).
Two lines like
/usr/X11R6/bin/xdm
sleep 1
in /etc/rc.local (as outlined in the FAQ question "How do I start XDM from
the /etc/ttys file?") will start xdm when the machine boots.
> I know this isn't the place for questions, but I'm asking you (Nik)
> personally. Email me the answer personally, if you have it.
I've sent it to the list as well, to stave off a possible flood of people
asking for the same information.
> >and then having to type 'startx' (or whatever
> >you use), although it can do more than that.
>
> Some of the things *I* like about it as a newbie:
>
> * It passes pertinent info onto any client it starts, so I don't have to
> worry about $DISPLAY (which isn't set at all on my system for some reason)
That is bizarre.
Does a
% cd $HOME
% grep DISPLAY .*
...
% grep DISPLAY /etc/profile /etc/csh*
show that the DISPLAY variable is being set somewhere when you log in?
When I login on the console the DISPLAY is unset.
After I've run "startx" then DISPLAY is set to ":0.0" (without the quotes)
which is right. I do nothing to change this default behviour, so it
sounds like there's something odd in your startup files somewhere.
> * I like the idea in the future of setting up my system to be graphical
> from start to finish (the 'real' main purpose of xdm).
Yep. I did this as well for a while.
> >> For those that haven't, try typing xdm while logged on as root (only
> >> root can use it).
> >
> >Nope. It's meant to be started by root, probably as one of the things in
> >/etc/rc.local (there's a FAQ question about this).
>
> My mistake, only root can START it, that's what I meant (not that only root
> can USE it once it's going). Sorry I wasn't clear on that.
Yep.
> >That's the point. xdm is managing your login, so when you quit X xdm thinks
> >you've logged out, and throws up another login prompt.
>
> Yah, I know, but for someone who just uses it as a program to manage
> multiple clients,
I'm getting confused by your terminology. In X, almost everything is a
client. xterms, netscape, xasteroids (<g>), all these are 'clients' of the
X server.
xdm doesn't manage clients, it manages displays.
Which window manager are you using?
> >It's less useful on a single user workstation (unless you *know* that
> >you're going to be running X as soon as your computer finishes booting,
> >in which case you may as well use it, and put a pretty picture on the
> >"Login" background :-) )
>
> I don't agree. I use it to integrate multiple X clients (I haven't settled
> on one yet by a LONG shot. I don't want to have to remember the names and
> parameters of all the various X clients I play with, and xdm is good for
> making that easier.
As I say, I don't follow this with your terminology.
> Anyway, I've said my piece on all this. *For me*, xdm is very useful on my
> desktop, as it integrates all my X clients. My attitude on what it
> does/can do/supposed to be used for is "take what I want/need and leave the
> rest." I could care less about its abilities as a login manager, I'm a
> single user who would actually prefer no security whatsoever and a DOS-like
> bootup into FreeBSD (what does a single-user, one person system in a *HOME*
> need a login/password for, anyway?),
Protection.
You could run a system where 'root' had no password and you used that
account the entire time. But that's not the 'Unix way'. If you do do it
that way you (IMHO) lose a vast amount of flexibility in how you configure
your system.
It also protects you from your mistakes. The '#' prompt is (for me) a
useful psychological reminder that if I screw up whatever I'm doing at
that point it's got repercussions for the entire machine, and not just
that part of it that I use every day.
> and the chooser is the most important aspect of it for me. Fair enough?
Yep. Each to their own and all that. It does sound like there's something
odd with your config files though. If you'd like a hand tracking that down
feel free to give me a shout (not to this address, to nik@freebsd.org,
which will reach me no matter where I happen to be logged in).
N
--
You are in a maze of twisty signature files all the same.
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