From owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Feb 26 07:02:33 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: current@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C5CC16A400; Tue, 26 Feb 2008 07:02:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-current@dino.sk) Received: from loki.netlab.sk (loki.netlab.sk [84.245.65.11]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3628213C447; Tue, 26 Feb 2008 07:02:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-current@dino.sk) Received: from fox.dino.sk (home.dino.sk [84.245.95.252]) (AUTH: PLAIN milan, TLS: TLSv1/SSLv3,256bits,AES256-SHA) by loki.netlab.sk with esmtp; Tue, 26 Feb 2008 07:48:15 +0100 id 0002E00A.47C3B62F.00012D5D From: Milan Obuch To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 07:52:01 +0100 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.7 References: <47C39948.3080907@elischer.org> <20080226051346.GA65258@lor.one-eyed-alien.net> <47C3A43C.7090308@elischer.org> In-Reply-To: <47C3A43C.7090308@elischer.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200802260752.02448.freebsd-current@dino.sk> Cc: Brooks Davis , FreeBSD Current , Marko Zec , Marko Zec , Marko Zec , Julian Elischer Subject: Re: warning of pending commit attempt. X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 07:02:33 -0000 On Tuesday 26 February 2008, Julian Elischer wrote: > Brooks Davis wrote: > > On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 08:44:56PM -0800, Julian Elischer wrote: > >> At some stage in the next few weeks I will be trying to commit > >> Marco Zec's vimage code to -current. (only 'trying' not > >> for technical reasons, but political). > >> I am one giving my full mental support to this one. Current status with only some snapshots available for testing is not good for me. I have a box in production using vimages and this will give me much easier method of testing things than it is now. [ snip ] > >> what do we gain? > >> Jail on steroids > >> A framework that can be extended to other virtualisation avenues. > >> The ability to have full virtual machines on almost any layout > >> of physical hardware. > >> > >> Why now? > >> The code is in a shape where teh compiled out version of hte system is > >> stable. In the compiled in version, it is functional > >> enough to provide nearly all of what people want. It needs people with > >> other interests to adapt it to their purposes and use it so that it can > >> become a solid product for future releases. > > > > The website has a snapshot with a date over a month old and many > > comments about unstable interfaces. I've seen zero reports of > > substantial testing... > > I and others have run it but there are obviously things to still do. > there is of course a limited amount of testing that a couple of people > can do. having said that I feel comfortable with it now or I wouldn't > have sugested this. As I said teh compiled out version is much easier > to verify, and this would give a much larger testing population. > I am running an older snapshot for couple of months now with no problem and only one small issue - some spurious messages in syslog, which does not bother me enough yet to hunt the real reason for it. I did run a similar system based on older 4-X releases patches with great success too, so I am just waiting for this move in order to be able to test better and more what new we can do in this area. [ snip ] > I say the next few weeks because we need it to happen NOW and > not "just before 8.0" It's been tested and run for over a year. > how much more do you want? No-one is talking about puting it in 7.0 > yet, but I don't want to make the same mistake we made when we didn't > put it in -current when 6.x was done. (slight hyperbole there... :-) > I think so too. This is good time for this move, so the whole picture will be clear before 8.0 (and I would like it to be long before 8.0) so the dust will be long ago settled in that timeframe. I will surely try my best with this when available. In my eyes, necessary amount of conservativism in this area is already taken and we should take a move. > > Don't get me wrong. I think this is interesting work and that it could > > be a major asset to FreeBSD. I also recognize that it should go in > > in the next 6-9 months (12 at the outside) if it's not going to cause > > problems with 8.0. I simply don't see any valid motivation for doing it > > with undue haste. > > This is not haste.. this has been waiting in the wings fo rover a > year. I'd like to see it in -current at most 2 months after 7.0 hits > the streets. We need to give it soak time and get people up to speed > on how to extend it and other virtual facilities, and probably > for feedback to resolt in design fixes so that wen 8.0 gets out the > door we have something that we can really be proud of. > For me, even 6-9 weeks is somewhat too long, but acceptable. The goal should be to gain stable state in -current ASAP in the true sense of this abbreviation. And this needs some work, but the gain is tremendous in my eyes. That being said, I can help only with testing and maybe some feature refining if some needs will be, but as I have current usage for this framework and some more in future (maybe, now just as an ideas), I am really interested in this move to happen. -- Address this mail is sent from is used only for this mailing list. Do not send any messages to it directly as a response, reply only to mailing list. For mail to me personally, use milan in address instead.