From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Mar 1 1:33:43 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from point.osg.gov.bc.ca (point.osg.gov.bc.ca [142.32.102.44]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B75D437B71A for ; Thu, 1 Mar 2001 01:33:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Cy.Schubert@uumail.gov.bc.ca) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by point.osg.gov.bc.ca (8.8.7/8.8.8) id BAA24982; Thu, 1 Mar 2001 01:33:13 -0800 Received: from passer.osg.gov.bc.ca(142.32.110.29) via SMTP by point.osg.gov.bc.ca, id smtpda24980; Thu Mar 1 01:32:55 2001 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by passer.osg.gov.bc.ca (8.11.2/8.9.1) id f219WiW24625; Thu, 1 Mar 2001 01:32:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from cwsys9.cwsent.com(10.2.2.1), claiming to be "cwsys.cwsent.com" via SMTP by passer9.cwsent.com, id smtpdi24623; Thu Mar 1 01:32:23 2001 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by cwsys.cwsent.com (8.11.3/8.9.1) id f219WK781344; Thu, 1 Mar 2001 01:32:20 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <200103010932.f219WK781344@cwsys.cwsent.com> Received: from localhost.cwsent.com(127.0.0.1), claiming to be "cwsys" via SMTP by localhost.cwsent.com, id smtpdR81241; Thu Mar 1 01:32:02 2001 X-Mailer: exmh version 2.3.1 01/18/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 Reply-To: Cy Schubert - ITSD Open Systems Group From: Cy Schubert - ITSD Open Systems Group X-Sender: schubert To: Mark Murray Cc: arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD sources from 20000' In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 27 Feb 2001 13:36:49 +0200." <200102271136.f1RBa4R12865@gratis.grondar.za> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 01:32:01 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <200102271136.f1RBa4R12865@gratis.grondar.za>, Mark Murray writes: > Hello all. > > There was a pretty good response to my initial probe a few days > ago, so the time comes by to revive the discussion, and to slowly > begin on the path to an actual solution. > > REMINDER REMINDER - The whole point of this exercise is NOT to > remove ANYTHING from FreeBSD. Effectively, FreeBSD will become a > grow-only system with the configuration and installation policies > placed in the hands of the owners or sysadmins. By "grow-only", I > do not mean we cannot throw out the trash; it just means that > arguments such as "please don't remove UUCP" or "please remove the > r-utils" are largely irrelevant. You have some good ideas and I agree with you in principle. Regarding "trash", some of us may consider "r" commands or "UUCP" as trash, or more specifically "bloat". Bloat in the CVS tree doesn't necessarily equate to bloat in the resulting tree. What I may consider bloat at work, e.g. "r" commands, v.s. may not be bloat on my network at home. Separate configurations (XML or otherwise) would allow me, FreeBSD Inc., my employer, etc., to define FreeBSD what is installed. From a 11,000 metre (35,000 ft.) level, I think you're on the mark. As we get down to the 1.5 metre (5 ft.) level we may find that the concept might not work well in practice as we like, e.g. the line needs to be drawn somewhere otherwise we will continually define what we intend to do yet not accomplish anything or the project is so big it will take 400 years to complete. Please continue to flesh out your idea. If we (the Royal We) debate this objectively, I'm sure we (the Royal We) can develop a plan that would satisfy the majority (70-70%) of the FreeBSD community, assuming we techies (this is the manager in me speaking) try not to "develop" or even "design" it before we define what it is that this is supposed to look like. This is a promising idea, therefore I'd like to suggest that a group of people, no more than 5, 10, or even 20, work on this together. The group will be able to come to consensus more quicly and easily than the hundreds that are subscribed to this list, fleshing out a definition and subsequently design, which will have considered more angles than just one person and be defended by the team of individuals who has developed the idea (as opposed to what usually happens on this list) when it is presented to this list for final discussion and approval. I don't want to see this go down in flames due to arguing about the colour of the bikeshed. So far so good. I like what I see. Regards, Phone: (250)387-8437 Cy Schubert Fax: (250)387-5766 Team Leader, Sun/Alpha Team Internet: Cy.Schubert@osg.gov.bc.ca Open Systems Group, ITSD, ISTA Province of BC To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message