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[192.0.220.237]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id af79cd13be357-7e67f752aa5sm950217185a.75.2025.08.07.06.09.01 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Thu, 07 Aug 2025 06:09:02 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2025 09:08:59 -0400 From: Mark Johnston To: Alan Somers Cc: freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org Subject: Re: freebsd-update and pkgbase Message-ID: References: List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4bySD54fsnz3xZM X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US] On Wed, Aug 06, 2025 at 04:22:09PM -0600, Alan Somers wrote: > On Wed, Aug 6, 2025 at 3:17 PM Mark Johnston wrote: > > > The future of freebsd-update post 15.0 isn't totally clear. There have > > been proposals to remove it in 15.0. IMO we can't remove it outright, > > since may be needed in order to upgrade 13.x and 14.x jails on a 15.0 > > host. It is also a shame to lose a simple upgrade utility that is > > well-documented and that many users are familiar with; compare > > "freebsd-update upgrade -r 14.3-RELEASE" with the upgrade instructions > > on the pkgbase wiki page. > > > > pkgbase offers a lot of flexibility but I suspect many users don't need > > it; they need a one-shot "upgrade my system, please" utility that will > > automatically create a boot environment, configure pkg repositories as > > needed for major/minor/security upgrades, fetch packages, and handle > > package installation order (i.e., kernel first, followed by a reboot). > > > > I don't really think this functionality belongs in pkg itself. So, > > seeing as freebsd-update already handles some of the above, and users > > are already familiar with it, I propose extending freebsd-update to work > > in a pkgbase world. Users would be free to not use it and instead use > > pkg directly if they so desire, but this would provide a simple > > alternative to those who don't want or need that flexibility. > > > > I'm going to try implementing this, if only to see if there are any > > unexpected issues that come up. Feedback would be appreciated, both on > > the proposal itself and on any technical hurdles you see. Aside from > > the internal changes needed to make freebsd-update subcommands use pkg, > > I see a few tasks and requirements: > > - freebsd-update should be able to bootstrap pkgbase; in practice, I > > think this means that we should import pkgbaseify and make > > freebsd-update able to run it if the user so requests. > > - freebsd-update should possibly live in its own pkgbase package so that > > it can upgrade itself before the rest of the system. > > - freebsd-update should configure a pkgbase repository using a file in > > /etc/pkg, disabled by default so that regular "pkg upgrade" doesn't > > try to touch the base system. I'm not sure yet how repository > > configurations should be managed: should they be dynamically > > generated, or should we provide some bundle of configurations (e.g., > > one for every supported release), or? > > - We need to figure out how to handle freebsd-update.conf options which > > don't make sense in a pkgbase world. > > > > This sounds like a great idea. You might consider switching to > freebsd-rustdate, though. It's far faster and somewhat easier to use. > It's probably more maintainable, too. I'll take a look at it but I don't think we'd want to switch to that and pkgbase both in 15.0? Plus, I think a lot of the existing code in freebsd-update doesn't need to be kept, and I expect using pkgbase should make freebsd-update much faster in any case...