From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Nov 19 12:18:19 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C731216A4CE for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 12:18:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (phoenix.welearn.com.au [139.130.44.81]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52C2A43FE3 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 12:18:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sue@welearn.com.au) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) hAJKIBV1019083 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 07:18:11 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAJKIBsc019082 for freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 07:18:11 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from sue) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 07:18:10 +1100 From: Sue Blake To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20031120071810.B749@welearn.com.au> Mail-Followup-To: Sue Blake , freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from crollins666@hotmail.com on Wed, Nov 19, 2003 at 07:08:43PM +0000 X-PGP-Fingerprint: E9A3 7B97 C563 DBB1 979E BC04 D2A2 9DA3 1274 7885 Subject: Re: Technical/support questions on -newbies X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 20:18:19 -0000 On Wed, Nov 19, 2003 at 07:08:43PM +0000, clayton rollins wrote: > Hi list, > > As I'm sure we've all noticed, a lot of questions get asked here > that should be re-written, sent to -questions, and/or sent to > -hackers. Oops, not to -hackers, just to -questions :-) FreeBSD-questions offers support for everybody, without exception, but -hackers is a collaboration space for FreeBSD develpers. They wouldn't like newbies straying over there for help. > As pointed out in tha FAK, I believe there are monitors around > who's responsibility it is to re-direct these misguided mails. Those "monitors" are the culturally advanced newbies, such as yourself. As a non-newbie, I don't really belong here, just as I don't belong in the -hackers community except as an observer. One of the most important roles of freebsd-newbies is to help people get in the swing of how our community works. In FreeBSD mailing lists, everyone is responsible for supporting the list charter, and whatever else the list is there to do. It's a community, not a service. One thing that's worse than asking help questions here is putting answers here! Do help out with advice on how to be a good community member or how to use the mailing lists or where to find self-help docco, but no FreeBSD support answers. There are a few reasons why it is important that answers NOT be sent to -newbies. Apart from being against the charter, it's also good to let -questions be the only archive to search for past answers. Also answers here just encourage more Q&A. Also if you know enough to answer, you should know better, and if you don't, you don't! Also -questions community checks answers, but here they are not checked, which is very bad for newbies confusion. Newbies need the best answers. If you don't want the people on -questions to see your answer, it is cruel to throw it at a newbie and other newbie onlookers. By all means, take it upon yourselves to help resolve this. We like to have everyone pitch in, that way there's no bosses and everyone belongs. Besides, I'm not around much these days, and -newbies was never meant to be where you're told what to do, beyond meeting the list charter. If newbies is not run by and for the community of newbies, it has failed. When a help question appears in -newbies I like to simply send my reply to -questions with a cc to the asker. They will then get a cc on any followup. Sending an extra copy to -newbies would be bad, it would encourage even more confusing discussion on -newbies, so don't do that. Remember to change the To:/Cc: header. Then if you see an unsanswered help request, maybe someone answered it elsewhere. You can check -questions. As we do for trolls, everyone needs to learn to silently ignore inappropriately posted questions. The whole group must do this to make it work. If an answer is not up to the srutiny of those on -questions, we certainly don't want that answer to be given to a newbie, at least not without peer review (like it gets in -questions). Most people genuinely want to help others, but some take it too far. We can't tolerate anyone playing "big fish" wannabee support guru in our pond. Some people will try that on, and it must be stopped. This is not a vehicle for showing the world how much you think you know, at newbies' expense! But it's quite OK to give your advice on -questions where your gems will be seen by thousands of adoring fans, and by helpful more experienced supporters. They always need more support helpers on -questions, and every newbie has something to offer. They will help you to become a better helper. Please, everyone pitch in to make -newbies work as it should. If it doesn't work out, we could lose this list one day. Remember who you're talking to, the really new people are very vulnerable and don't yet understand how we do things. Mistakes are easier to tolerate in -newbies than elsewhere. It's up to you all to tell them gently so they don't get a firmer reminder elsewhere, to show that we understand and to make them realise how much we like having them around. This is the first lesson in becoming a FreeBSD community member. It is yours to share, every one of you. Please do so. -- Regards, -*Sue*- Newbies List Aunty