From owner-freebsd-mono@freebsd.org Fri Jun 17 21:41:33 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mono@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54176A77C2E for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2016 21:41:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mathieu.prevot@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lf0-x231.google.com (mail-lf0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c07::231]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B02D81BBD; Fri, 17 Jun 2016 21:41:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mathieu.prevot@gmail.com) Received: by mail-lf0-x231.google.com with SMTP id f6so6099196lfg.0; Fri, 17 Jun 2016 14:41:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=OTcXXc8PZ3QxIyB86m9sUrNsYnfEF4wQXHbwtyCPMSs=; b=BzVUC5HSIvQVyLnUFKlIB+7c9zMHGKVuhSsfQM2pnJiMxSvc9j64ggLUECVY3o6MXU fZRrJooMVDSZ0m7Jo9/5VfYotnBWCP0emYKlLdWgj8ITebAOuBTxkeUfKfTjDgdgmojS 30Ll5/CwPLlHANeeaXKakHk6f2eMYIuAC3uxj83XszipnScFfD8wwR625JxNrInko7Me l5Y9hLnoIkm2jFfS8USVtauRdQ28gcx2Rjc+p1CybZFjvDpg7LSDH0EJY75i9l5PjAFG 8QH3w3B0Wi/ESZl9EyjFbGLHUntE4lXTZifbL/VdYq7sfHup03cK78GpmeHnWbSS6JLn 0rEw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=OTcXXc8PZ3QxIyB86m9sUrNsYnfEF4wQXHbwtyCPMSs=; b=moryn9bEJ4wS0YaPkmQ7rWL8mAVxHIkS6fgeg+6MWcS6Zi6bccMQyjfckwBjiw6SVh wF4cem5oTJqIvlys5Nf/XC4Zw60KJoSVRB6afzoQ3zrkZrZr6XdmyA6q4TIYYPnIYIvK e5g0iU2EONZKJ+8U87FzKBdxTPWWZaO6VfkiNTUv0WTjBYKs0RA1lslk2pvgFO+5N5xP VngGAZh/RDTi+N9UlIcjTuQ1DkC6qkDcBq1nXuCj4BRhaYYS0X3TemwXnwYH6HcGdNZX /V3/+8CRijeBAc1xTMwAWH2wYGTMoMxUFHM1CpR3KV2GWBAL9EgztS0hf90klK/ydArK V2AA== X-Gm-Message-State: ALyK8tJbBsEF2qzDI+tFbvskBlYiygsATaNLw1OXufW7yniBRoNY+ko2f7WkM6Pv6Iooq/fN0AzHP4p1R5xpMw== X-Received: by 10.25.141.135 with SMTP id p129mr1068553lfd.194.1466199690833; Fri, 17 Jun 2016 14:41:30 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.25.211.141 with HTTP; Fri, 17 Jun 2016 14:41:11 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <5763A1F6.9090501@gmail.com> References: <5763A1F6.9090501@gmail.com> From: Mathieu Prevot Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 23:41:11 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: maintaining ports and mono To: Ivan Radovanovic Cc: Russell Haley , romain@freebsd.org, Freebsd-mono Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.22 X-BeenThere: freebsd-mono@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Mono and C# applications on FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 21:41:33 -0000 2016-06-17 9:08 GMT+02:00 Ivan Radovanovic : > On 06/16/2016 21:53, Mathieu Prevot napisa: > >> >> >> 2016-06-16 20:08 GMT+02:00 Russell Haley > >: >> >> Hi Mathieu, >> >> I have expressed interest in helping maintain mono on FreeBSD but have >> moved away due to lack of interest and support. Currently someone has >> ported more recent versions of Mono (Romain I think?), but MonoDevelop >> is somewhat out of date. I had patches to build MonoDevelop with >> Rolsyn but couldn't get the MonoDevelop github repos to work with >> FreeBSD ports so I gave up after multiple requests for help on both >> this mailing list and the FreeBSD forum. >> >> Other .Net things I'd like to see: >> - Ivan had some patches for kqueue issues, he passed them on to me but >> again, I have moved away from .net on FreeBSD >> - I would like to see a port of Pinta on FreeBSD >> (https://pinta-project.com/pintaproject/pinta/) because gimp makes me >> want to throw my computer >> - I once built and ran .Net Core and would like to see if that has >> progressed, perhaps put together a FreeBSD port for it. The ultimate >> goal in my mind is to update MonoDevelop to use .net Core >> - Porting and testing asp.net and MVC to FreeBSD >> - Testing the latest mono on FreeBSD CURRENT for ARM >> >> I had also at one point seen a possible business model helping clients >> get their .net software off of Windows to save $$$ and create >> resalable appliances, but that idea died on the vine. >> >> Ultimately, there are so many development options on FreeBSD, I moved >> to something that was better supported (lua), but I really really miss >> that big beautiful framework. I guess there's always Java, or Python, >> or Ruby... :( >> >> >> There are many points here, from .NET to IDEs and business. >> >> IMHO having .NET framework work is good, APS.NET too. >> Ultimately, having WPF too would be amazing. I'm planing to probe this >> with the WPF team. >> There is request on UserVoice (Microsoft interface for feedback and >> features requests) of opening WPF sources, which is possible. >> Microsoft recent policy is to make Windows the #1 platform for software >> development, and have GNU tools work natively in Windows. >> Their Azure platform now supports FreeBSD 10.3 VM. >> Despite everything, they will want probably to make sure Windows still >> have competitive advantages, making the WPF and ASP.net not that likely >> to be available/ported/opened. >> >> Historically and to my knowledge, GNU/Linux was used for desktop at >> Google, and FreeBSD rather for servers. Having FreeBSD a stronger dev >> platform is questionable and might require a lot of energy/time/effort >> from the community. >> >> Have you tried java/javaFX/openGL ? >> >> M >> >> > Hi Mathieu, > > IMHO opinion there is no interest to have Mono running properly on FreeBSD > from either side. Original mono developers are even proud to say they don't > care about having it run on *BSD, > Do you have reference to such thing ? list archive ? I think it might be right in the past, the teams might have changed, and the mindset might have changed, and ultimately, does it matter ? > and I guess based on amount of feedback you got on this list you can draw > your own conclusions about enthusiasm coming from this side. > I understand this too. However, people are not necessarily fast and everything. People have also their own projects, preoccupations, availability / will / time. I give few days to get the temperature of the community. My mindset is not: do we need this, but rather: what can we do with this ? and: which opportunities does this brings to FreeBSD ? And then: what am I willing to give in term of time/energy for this ? For enterprise purposes, often productivity comes first, and results, warranties comes first, and in that case, people are willing to pay (say Microsoft) to have a certain level of productivity and results. Then there is their policy: do we spend more money on dev man power, or more in proprietary software, or hardware ? just policy, IMO. > We at company still have some production ASP.Net applications we are > running using mono/FreeBSD with some patches I wrote both for mono and > their fastcgi server, but AFAIK those never found their way either to > FreeBSD port or main mono repository, and I really don't have enough time > to spend it convincing people to use free source I wrote - what is > interesting web server patches fix some OS independent bugs with socket > handling they have, but maybe they thought they were also FreeBSD related > :-) > Sounds really good :) Do you have an idea of the amount of lines / hours to do such thing ? I keep all that in mind ! I keep probing and will come back to you. Many thanks for proposing this. > I think there is also problem with attitude with mono guys - it seems > there is perception (as you put it in "GNU/Linux was used for desktop at > Google, and FreeBSD rather for servers") that there is no need to actually > have .Net running on FreeBSD, but according to my experience serious use of > .Net is in web applications, and that is server side usage. > I see. Again, do you have archives about this ? when this happened ? If Microsoft is interested, they might influence the Mono community : they sponsor them. > Anyway, in company we are not using C# for any new development (we > switched back to C++), but we stayed with FreeBSD (I guess for us the only > way to have stable mono on FreeBSD would be to fork entire project, and > that would require manpower we don't have at the moment). > C# have many serious advantages such as linq, tasks, GC, the VM and many things of a modern object oriented language. To me it's one of the most pleasant language to work with, as a programmer. Then yes, the ecosystem matters first. Many thanks for the opinion and details. Cheers M