From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Sun Dec 16 16:32:35 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BE0013318EA for ; Sun, 16 Dec 2018 16:32:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (mailman.ysv.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::50:5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96F368DB79 for ; Sun, 16 Dec 2018 16:32:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id 5955F13318DE; Sun, 16 Dec 2018 16:32:34 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BBAA13318DD for ; Sun, 16 Dec 2018 16:32:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-qk1-x72a.google.com (mail-qk1-x72a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::72a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B36E58DB78 for ; Sun, 16 Dec 2018 16:32:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-qk1-x72a.google.com with SMTP id g125so5834274qke.4 for ; Sun, 16 Dec 2018 08:32:33 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=ZQCi9jAfqHscxwuvf9zQVuQcGlXE2AyGvzuknCDD3kg=; b=Goi2wRQV5qBSMa7SWMRF5uQ3J++Yqk7nWvY9o51ImlnyHjgdjQ54Dwn60WhXnLwu2Z EBz2MBDLxFQXduJOJJCSDLyBjrzW/iIVtTVNPQCy3oLFKjiSVH2+FevqQ6q0bcMfiHmx 7/Z2C0csGB6mBDwBHDTjwuR8XtraU6MMjd9YKc59YUgdFkWJSVqHOWu+WX/pKUzdACUy RpGwbLediTLQfOgzUdHNWecNOUHv+eWUhz9Xe1RSP1JMN+UWXZ/j+XlH/TAy3lETZcgQ eGTvtBI0yya8kvBfsMEEdZfi1uFBk5Fc4/MTmshbl4aj6rkZutQ0Zo6veuC6esVH8gfX +X8A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=ZQCi9jAfqHscxwuvf9zQVuQcGlXE2AyGvzuknCDD3kg=; b=j7g38jU/t3V3AhUf4c54cQJPpKM6ZM7uEFfY1i0yjsY37aedsL794yjeSnaKUMfemG lBJdHQmKnYIOfOrMc3/7yNHquhlCSu90DOyUnzpzbe0bPlxkhR9o9t+bysKWzybCeuRS 6aQuFMV9R089cASG2WIfuG4KTBBXxe74HqzfuYQ4rTBcXZJCyXEjuxhT/oAjhydS3k89 DrSoZ2Lt+HcK5/o5ORHRYqVt2M4oVq2mdnM8WCT7KINX8Uh1C0sJvJ1XMWHwAyuOJxEQ TbroIYULqgVVQar5dHfGjrn0PE6+Cjc8q+p2NShUYns9EWeAPrxQRBkrIxpfFsYcJdBx Lgaw== X-Gm-Message-State: AA+aEWZs69uQZuY0bFTTWG026OXLvUHNJchadervB9Ed85tWKJK7FQeU LSii6jULIgR1NF7JP9+sbrfYKXaKzhg6GokhzV/6DfVv29c= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AFSGD/WykH34oikTsO4VeBbmhZmJNyMPGmat0XK7s337IuInxBavIZ6BqMSRKrjBzAsSZZpx1/ueuNF9kjP2fUzpnJg= X-Received: by 2002:a37:9604:: with SMTP id y4mr9921901qkd.279.1544977953057; Sun, 16 Dec 2018 08:32:33 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Warner Losh Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2018 09:32:22 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: A proposal for code removal prior to FreeBSD 13 To: George Neville-Neil Cc: freebsd- X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: B36E58DB78 X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.94 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.94)[-0.945,0]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.998,0] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2018 16:32:35 -0000 On Sun, Dec 16, 2018 at 8:27 AM George Neville-Neil wrote: > Howdy, > > A few of us are working on a list of programs and other code that we'd > like to remove before FreeBSD 13. If others with to collaborate on this > removal, or discuss it, please do so here. > > The list is being maintained on the project WIki: > https://wiki.freebsd.org/WhatsGoing/FreeBSD13 I'm in the process of writing some of the criteria I've been using to drive discussions. I've promised a formal policy for a long time, but that's turning out to be harder than I thought to write and have just documented the criteria I look at to do the cost / benefit analysis for things. It's skewed a bit towards old drivers and old architectures (or platforms within those architectures), but it's likely a useful snowman to work towards something better. https://wiki.freebsd.org/ObsoleteCriteria This doesn't get into the process at all of who to have the conversation with, what steps you go through to ensure that there's a transition plan for current users (if there's enough to warrant it), etc. It's just a set of things I've found useful to think about and that I think the project should adopt (with refinement) as a standard template to use when making these calls. I also hope that there's sufficient public discussion of the proposed removals individually. While you can't always get 100% agreement, you still need to have the discussions to make sure that you aren't blind to data that would stay your hand on deletion (or maybe even hasten it). Warner