From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 9 23:30:53 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE2E9106566B for ; Wed, 9 Dec 2009 23:30:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ben@morrow.me.uk) Received: from relay.ptn-ipout01.plus.net (relay.ptn-ipout01.plus.net [212.159.7.35]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AEB78FC12 for ; Wed, 9 Dec 2009 23:30:53 +0000 (UTC) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: ApwEAIK7H0vUOFPl/2dsb2JhbACBTNUihCwE Received: from plesk-mail01.plus.net ([212.56.83.229]) by relay.ptn-ipout01.plus.net with ESMTP; 09 Dec 2009 23:01:13 +0000 Received: (qmail 20492 invoked from network); 9 Dec 2009 23:01:12 +0000 Received: from host81-153-87-65.range81-153.btcentralplus.com (HELO osiris.mauzo.dyndns.org) (81.153.87.65) by plesk-mail01.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Dec 2009 23:01:12 +0000 Received: (qmail 61370 invoked by uid 1001); 9 Dec 2009 23:01:12 -0000 Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 23:01:12 +0000 From: Ben Morrow To: rsmith@xs4all.nl, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20091209230112.GA61324@osiris.mauzo.dyndns.org> Mail-Followup-To: rsmith@xs4all.nl, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org References: <20091209193239.88ED31CC0C@ptavv.es.net> <200912092055.20383.pieter@degoeje.nl> <20091209210912.GA90766@icarus.home.lan> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20091209224344.GA75129@slackbox.xs4all.nl> X-Newsgroups: gmane.os.freebsd.stable Organization: Who, me? User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.17 (2007-11-01) Cc: Subject: Re: RELENG_8 buildworld broken? X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Dec 2009 23:30:54 -0000 Quoth Roland Smith : > On Wed, Dec 09, 2009 at 01:09:12PM -0800, Jeremy Chadwick wrote: > > > Basically, all this comes back to the same thing: the entire "base > > system" concept needs to be revisited (that's a nice way of saying > > "nuked from orbit", but that's my opinion). > > Hmm, I kind of like having a usable base system as opposed to just a > kernel. :-) It is one of the strong points of FreeBSD, IMHO. The fact that the > base system is developed as a unit keeps it working very well. Yes. At a bare minimum, the base system should contain enough to 'make install' a typical port, including everything required to get the network running. Application programs like sendmail and bind could easily be moved out into ports (just as X11 was), but the core libraries and the dev environment should be distributed as a unit. One of the reasons I switched my home machine to FreeBSD was to get away from the nightmare of trying to upgrade glibc in Gentoo. I don't believe I ever got it to run right through without it falling over and having to go in and build some package by hand: the recursive dependancies (portage depends on python depends on glibc depends on a newer version of portage... ) just got too complicated. Ben