From owner-freebsd-current Thu Jul 31 14:44:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA05587 for current-outgoing; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 14:44:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp2.xs4all.nl (smtp2.xs4all.nl [194.109.6.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA05580 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 14:44:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asterix.xs4all.nl (root@asterix.xs4all.nl [194.109.6.11]) by smtp2.xs4all.nl (8.8.6/XS4ALL) with ESMTP id XAA23925 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 23:44:26 +0200 (CEST) Received: from plm.xs4all.nl (uucp@localhost) by asterix.xs4all.nl (8.8.6/8.8.6) with UUCP id XAA11202 for freebsd-current@freebsd.org; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 23:42:55 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from plm@localhost) by plm.xs4all.nl (8.8.5/8.7.3) id WAA05489; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 22:54:37 +0200 (MET DST) To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: core group topics References: <87pvrzvto5.fsf@totally-fudged-out-message-id> From: Peter Mutsaers Date: 31 Jul 1997 22:54:37 +0200 In-Reply-To: TLiddelow@cybec.com.au's message of Thu, 31 Jul 1997 18:00:16 +1000 Message-ID: <87204fndrm.fsf@plm.xs4all.nl> Lines: 52 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.4.25/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> On Thu, 31 Jul 1997 18:00:16 +1000, TLiddelow@cybec.com.au (Tim >> Liddelow) said: TL> Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: >> >> Erm, "none excepting inertia and fear of chaos, confusion, shock and >> increased entropy all around." :) Inflicting another ABI on our user >> base, one which will result in a new class of packages which all older >> FreeBSD releases cannot run, is NOT something to be considered >> lightly. >> >> Jordan TL> It doesn't have to be _that_ hard. The Linux camp did the dual ABI TL> thing for quite a while. Sure - the transition wasn't all beer and TL> skittles but they did it. And they're reaping the rewards (see TL> previous postings) for it. I agree completely. I was using Linux at the time that ELF first appeared there. I fetched the ELF packages and libraries and converted my system slowly myself. It was pretty painless, for anyone who knows a little bit about Unix and who has some common sense. There was some upset about this switch in the Linux camp, but only because: - there are many clueless Linux users (much more than freebsd users) AND - Linux doesn't come in one single consistent distrubution. This combination (clueless users trying to install software themselves without a clear ports mechanism etc.) was pretty tough for many; note that this switch occurred even before the somewhat better distributions such as Debian or Red Hat existed. Most users at that time were still assembling their Linux systems by themselves. FreeBSD users will have much less troubles with a transition to ELF as the Linux camp had because 1. Either FreeBSD users are more knowledgeble and/or 2. FreeBSD comes better packaged. Users don't go out and fetch packages from many sites and install them by themselves. Instead, they have the single and consistent base distribution, and add packages via the ports.