From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Sep 19 14:53:15 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 811A5106566B for ; Wed, 19 Sep 2012 14:53:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from nomadlogic@gmail.com) Received: from mail-vb0-f54.google.com (mail-vb0-f54.google.com [209.85.212.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 347898FC0A for ; Wed, 19 Sep 2012 14:53:14 +0000 (UTC) Received: by vbmv11 with SMTP id v11so1643431vbm.13 for ; Wed, 19 Sep 2012 07:53:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=fa8NCp3aRLfYpTJO63qJAcID/DXuGOElFebhtvAJFhA=; b=js1E6Waq5iGlOxkaltTfRpIscCe+5uUjCOiPpThkZYZ31/Uzj0bo409i0RWFtWH4fD paximehqyiWXuNJWQNAAiXUgE27zRHBdQQlc8pd2iicnXTCQBaZlsv/wLwCn0I5+dS8w eamTqlBHRvAQ1cIdNB1ZYSkY27FVBKIHsynmR2b6lFs2hWO52lZugw+hOxiMTdu3b6bF PAiItnjrk3cYtRtQx38drDswcyxnwN193E4Oyx5EMBfwoW9xkLg3LisMo4rehaBUJDQ0 JB0P5H/Wp3NG9tSL1hSUtN3J/BZc9FJzAddrag515hSiD6IOI0HxbcJJx/VqM8XG5GNR 3pgA== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.221.13.78 with SMTP id pl14mr367778vcb.7.1348066394103; Wed, 19 Sep 2012 07:53:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.58.203.4 with HTTP; Wed, 19 Sep 2012 07:53:14 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <780066C6E2FAB67A997876B7@Pauls-MacBook-Pro.local> <20567.50041.903201.979498@jerusalem.litteratus.org> Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 07:53:14 -0700 Message-ID: From: pete wright To: Warren Block Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: Paul Schmehl , Robert Huff , questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What replaces csup? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 14:53:16 -0000 On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 6:41 AM, Warren Block wrote: > On Mon, 17 Sep 2012, pete wright wrote: > >> On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 8:14 PM, Warren Block wrote: >>> >>> >>> csup updates just the files that have changed without all the overhead. >>> svn >>> export can get a copy of all the current files, but it copies all of them >>> every time, not just the changes. >>> >> >> yea i agree with you. i wonder if it would be worth the effort of >> sharing a svn export via rsync or httpd to make fetching delta's >> easier and/or more efficient from a base install? > > > It's an interesting idea. If the repository files were directly accessible > in a filesystem, that filesystem could be shared with rsyncd and some > exclude settings without needing an export at all. With svn bdb, the files > are not directly accessible, but I don't know for fsfs. Probably not, so a > periodic export would still be required. i did some tinkering with this last night, with the thought of storing an export in a zfs filesystem and eventually making it available publicly via a jail. my findings were that an export of the 9.1 relng branch consumed ~750MB while a svn co consumed ~1.4G of disk space and a full export took roughly 10-15mins. i eventually decided that what I was doing wasn't really needed by the wider end-user community. after mulling this move from cvs/csup for a bit i came to the conclusion that really the need for a source checkout is not as important as it may have been several years ago. freebsd-update is a really great tool, and i reckon for a majority of users out there not having to rebuild the kernel+world to get updates is a good thing(tm). i also reckon running a GENERIC kernel is appropriate in maybe %90 of use-cases out there as well (i haven't had a need to build a custom kernel on various server and workstation platforms since 2008'ish frankly). in this context, going the binary distribution route seems like a really smart decision. having a majority of your users basically running the same builds of the world and kernel *should* decrease the amount of support bandwidth needed to get people updated and running current code. i also reckon having more people running the same binaries would be helpful in finding reproducible bugs and hopefully squash them. so back to my original point...for sites running many systems, or sites requiring specific builds - mirroring the source tree locally is still very doable, and fortunately there are many well known ways to do this (svn co, svn export, skv, etc..). you could even argue that having a svn checkout may make patching bugs easier as you could just import a svn diff, rebuild and test. i also feel, personally, that it is nice to allow someone else build the kernel+world and let me grab binary updates as needed. now i can spend my clock cycles on more important tasks, like building packages for my pkgng repo :) -pete -- pete wright www.nycbug.org @nomadlogicLA