From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 8 16:40:25 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82809106566C for ; Thu, 8 Jul 2010 16:40:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jdc@koitsu.dyndns.org) Received: from qmta09.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net (qmta09.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net [76.96.62.96]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CF468FC17 for ; Thu, 8 Jul 2010 16:40:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: from omta11.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.36]) by qmta09.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id fPZf1e0020mv7h059UgRzL; Thu, 08 Jul 2010 16:40:25 +0000 Received: from koitsu.dyndns.org ([98.248.41.155]) by omta11.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id fUgP1e00R3LrwQ23XUgQK0; Thu, 08 Jul 2010 16:40:25 +0000 Received: by icarus.home.lan (Postfix, from userid 1000) id A99699B423; Thu, 8 Jul 2010 09:40:22 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 09:40:22 -0700 From: Jeremy Chadwick To: "Mikhail T." Message-ID: <20100708164022.GA46433@icarus.home.lan> References: <4C34C5DE.7040007@aldan.algebra.com> <4C34CA31.7010804@aldan.algebra.com> <4C34E39A.7090905@aldan.algebra.com> <20100708135353.GA43460@icarus.home.lan> <4C35E9D4.8080007@aldan.algebra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <4C35E9D4.8080007@aldan.algebra.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14) Cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: net-booting the install disks (Re: 8.x grudges) X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 16:40:25 -0000 On Thu, Jul 08, 2010 at 11:08:04AM -0400, Mikhail T. wrote: > 08.07.2010 09:53, Jeremy Chadwick написав(ла): > >Then don't modify loader.conf. Instead, once the "Welcome to FreeBSD!" > >portion of loader appears, press "6" to shell to the loader prompt > >and type: > > > >set vfs.root.mountfrom="ufs:/dev/md0" > >boot > Yes, that works... It just should not be necessary. Okay, so let me get this straight. First the complaint was that you had to modify loader.conf, which involved extracting the CD image, editing the file, yadda yadda. Now that you've been shown you don't have to edit loader.conf, the complaint is "it shouldn't be necessary". :-) There's actually quite a bit about FreeBSD that "shouldn't be necessary" (from an administrator's point of view), but that's a completely separate issue when compared to your "when I do thing X in the kernel config, it breaks". Which of those two approaches do you want to focus on? > Red Hat's "kickstart" does not require one to extract CD-images to > fiddle with a couple of lines, and FreeBSD comes tantalizingly close > to offer the same functionality. Just not quite :-( I've PXE booted Ubuntu and Debian. It was easy to accomplish (read: easier than FreeBSD) because they offer pxelinux vs. FreeBSD's pxeboot. pxelinux[1] offers the ability to read a configuration file via TFTP, which configures pxelinux itself. The configuration capabilities are very impressive[2]. FreeBSD folks interested in PXE should really take a look at this thing. I believe the configuration file is read and applied immediately, so things like serial port speed changes happen before pxelinux outputs anything (e.g. no need to rebuild pxelinux just to get a faster rate). That said, given that FreeBSD's pxeboot requires a bunch of extra work (rebuilding for faster serial speed, and a bunch of other stuff -- it's in my doc), I'm a surprised you're not complaining about that. :-) The bottom line: the PXE booting framework in FreeBSD could be improved. Even Randi would agree with this point, I think. But the question then becomes: what can you bring to the table which can help improve the situation? If you have the skills to help improve the situation, please help. By making it better for yourself, you can help make it better for everyone; a win-win situation. Anyway, your list of irritations when upgrading from 7.x to 8.x are mainly opinions -- and that's okay. I don't necessarily have a problem with your opinions, despite some being inaccurate or wrong; nothing wrong with being wrong! I'm not being sarcastic when I say I *do* appreciate the feedback you've provided (the method of approach is similar to how I go about things; I've quite a big list of "WTFs" when it comes to software in general), but you need to be reasonable and focus on a compromise. I think the community wants to help you but you definitely want things a certain way or have a lot of pre-conceived notions regarding what kernel or userland pieces "should or should not change". That's just not a realistic way to approach computing these days. So like I said: things change. It's very hard to keep up with all the changes between major FreeBSD releases. The longevity of your use of FreeBSD doesn't matter -- I go back to the 2.2.x days. The difference between 2.x and 8.x is immense, and I'm talking on *all* levels. I had to adapt too, and it takes time to get familiar with all the changes. So please be a bit flexible and we'll do our best to help you fix what's broken *and* help you understand why things are different. [1]: http://syslinux.zytor.com/wiki/index.php/PXELINUX [2]: http://syslinux.zytor.com/wiki/index.php/SYSLINUX#How_do_I_Configure_SYSLINUX.3F (Not a typo; the pxelinux =~ syslinux, same options. See [1], section "What is PXELINUX" for validation) -- | Jeremy Chadwick jdc@parodius.com | | Parodius Networking http://www.parodius.com/ | | UNIX Systems Administrator Mountain View, CA, USA | | Making life hard for others since 1977. PGP: 4BD6C0CB |