From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Thu Apr 1 15:16:45 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBD9257A96E for ; Thu, 1 Apr 2021 15:16:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ambrisko@ambrisko.com) Received: from mail2.ambrisko.com (mail2.ambrisko.com [70.91.206.91]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FB6Gj3QkHz3wSF; Thu, 1 Apr 2021 15:16:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ambrisko@ambrisko.com) IronPort-SDR: RmFy1ec0FPu55HgB8aWDf/Iy4pFbvCgqEyF/2iVnWfklhHp5CU1AAKqsN7N+N2pjHoeGwyvIPV 36HzxjrUYv22uWrBMviiQXKp4UNwSclbI= X-Ambrisko-Me: Yes IronPort-HdrOrdr: A9a23:TJE1sa0vzN7b1dhApAhGfgqjBFwkLtp033Aq2lEZdDV+eKWj+f yGtvIdyBPylXI9WGs4n8qBJamHRhrnhPpIyKMWOqqvWxSjhXuwIOhZnO7f6hDpBiGWzINg/I h6dawWMrHNJHh8yf33+QypV+snqeP3l5yAocf74zNTQRpxa6dmhj0JaDqzNkFtXgFJCd4YOf OnhvZvnDardXQJYsnTPBBsNIL+jubGm578bRkNCwRP0njssRqT9LX4HxKEty1+bxpzx94Znl T4rw== Received: from server2.ambrisko.com (HELO internal.ambrisko.com) ([192.168.1.2]) by ironport2.ambrisko.com with ESMTP; 01 Apr 2021 07:34:57 -0700 Received: from ambrisko.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by internal.ambrisko.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 131FGhZh032912 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 1 Apr 2021 08:16:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ambrisko@ambrisko.com) Received: (from ambrisko@localhost) by ambrisko.com (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id 131FGgvL032911; Thu, 1 Apr 2021 08:16:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ambrisko) Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2021 08:16:42 -0700 From: Doug Ambrisko To: Lev Serebryakov Cc: Ed Maste , Chris , freebsd-stable stable Subject: Re: Vinum deprecation for FreeBSD 14 - are there any remaining Vinum users? Message-ID: <20210401151642.GB87581@ambrisko.com> References: <20210331233934.GA66902@ambrisko.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4FB6Gj3QkHz3wSF X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2021 15:16:45 -0000 On Thu, Apr 01, 2021 at 11:20:44AM +0300, Lev Serebryakov wrote: | On 01.04.2021 2:39, Doug Ambrisko wrote: | | > | > I can only state that I use it only occasionally, and that when I do. I | > | > have had no problems with it. I'm glad that it's there when I need it. | > | | > | Thanks for the reply. Can you comment on your use cases - in | > | particular, did you use mirror, stripe, or raid5? If the first two | > | then gmirror, gconcat, gstripe, and/or graid are suitable | > | replacements. | > | | > | I'm not looking to deprecate it just because it's old, but because of | > | a mismatch between user and developer expectations about its | > | stability. | > | > It would be nice if graid got full support for RAID5 alteast I'm not sure | > how much the others are used for that are not fully supported (RAID4, | > RAID5, RAID5E, RAID5EE, RAID5R, RAID6, RAIDMDF) according to the man | > page. I started to hack in RAID5 full support and try to avoid writes | > if members didn't change. This limits our VROC support. | My experience, as co-author and maintainer of `sysutil/graid5`, | shows, that it is very non-trivial task. It contains many subtle | problems. | | `graid5` still has some undiscovered problems, and I don't think it | worth fixing in 2021, when we have ZFS for many years. The only advantage I see of graid supporting raid5 would be better support for VROC and people like RAID5. I don't like RAID5 for SSD's since it adds to write amplification issues but people like it. RAID5 had terrible write performance in Linux with concurrent I/O. I wanted to see if FreeBSD could do better. Intel seems to be pushing VMD since we recently had a FreeBSD user need newer VMD support since they couldn't turn it off in the BIOS. VMware doesn't support VROC. We support it a bit in that VMD allows graid to access the drives and deals with the Intel meta data. It doesn't read the info. from the EFI runtime. So in RAID 0, 1 and 10 should work. It would be nice if someone could install FreeBSD on working Linux config. No-one has asked for it so it doesn't seem very important. Thanks, Doug A.