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Date:      Wed, 11 Jun 2003 16:08:39 -0400
From:      Garance A Drosihn <drosih@rpi.edu>
To:        Marcel Moolenaar <marcel@xcllnt.net>
Cc:        arch@freebsd.org
Subject:   Re: removing stale files
Message-ID:  <p05210614bb0d30155a2e@[128.113.24.47]>
In-Reply-To: <20030611190615.GA15695@dhcp01.pn.xcllnt.net>
References:  <20030610124747.A7560@phantom.cris.net> <20030610024524.D23396@znfgre.qbhto.arg> <20030611075750.GB57496@wantadilla.lemis.com> <20030611.093203.26943899.imp@bsdimp.com> <p05210613bb0d2187f0dd@[128.113.24.47]> <20030611190615.GA15695@dhcp01.pn.xcllnt.net>

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At 12:06 PM -0700 6/11/03, Marcel Moolenaar wrote:
>As for the argument that removing a library, binary or header
>may break some tools, scripts or sources that depend on it:
>If that happens, we failed to maintain backward compatibility.
>The bug is not in the removal of a stale file, but in the
>fact that the file has become stale. Keeping stale files
>around only hides the bug.

That isn't quite what I'm concerned about.  I just want to
be sure that we are *only* removing files when we *know*
what they are.  Many suggestions amount to removing anything
"which looks old", because "if it is old, it must be bad".
That means you're removing files when you don't really know
what they contain, or why they're there.

Or you remove files which *you* don't need, but someone else
will need because they are running freebsd with different
build options.

Once you know that a file is indeed a stale file from a
previous freebsd install, then it's pretty clear that it
should be deleted.  If there are bugs with backwards-
compatibility, then we fix the bugs.  I am not concerned
with those bugs, I am concerned that the utility might
remove files that we had no business removing.

I started some work on what seemed like an obviously-workable
solution to me, and found that it rapidly gets complicated
if you want it to be something that *every* freebsd user
could run without doing damage.  Real damage, not "We goofed
with backward-compatibility" bugs.

I know what I would want to do for my next attempt at this, but
I also know that I'll have no time for it anytime soon.  So, I
don't want to discourage anyone else from working on it.  At
this point, I'd almost be happy to see it done wrong, just to
see something real that people could get experience with.  Once
we have some starting point, then we're more likely to make
some progress with it.

I'm just saying that a utility with a list of specific files is
much less likely to blow off some poor user's foot when they
run it.  Certainly it makes sense to look at what netbsd has,
and see if that gives us something workable.  I'd like to see
something that at least will "do no damage", even if might not
solve all the problems we can think of with stale files.

-- 
Garance Alistair Drosehn            =   gad@gilead.netel.rpi.edu
Senior Systems Programmer           or  gad@freebsd.org
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute    or  drosih@rpi.edu



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