From nobody Sun Aug 4 19:27:25 2024 X-Original-To: freebsd-hackers@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4WcV2f6Bglz5Ssvf for ; Sun, 04 Aug 2024 19:27:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-pj1-x102c.google.com (mail-pj1-x102c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::102c]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "WR4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4WcV2f4Zkcz4TSW for ; Sun, 4 Aug 2024 19:27:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: by mail-pj1-x102c.google.com with SMTP id 98e67ed59e1d1-2cfec641429so2174325a91.0 for ; Sun, 04 Aug 2024 12:27:38 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20230601.gappssmtp.com; s=20230601; t=1722799657; x=1723404457; darn=freebsd.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=vqwnzLEfeClr8KWOWCGqSVFgE9PtNSgIF3YqppZc+jY=; b=WmXwEu9k4rTJzl3UC/3XMZNnzDQ5+92wVD80DDiJJHFplLUezahudovn9kNNMUYaUi cd4t53W2HO+uBYKAjVvtZ1z1HrTAn6EYlmLaXso2ZVA/P/3vwPCPj1BBEM+C4t846OJ9 3nR1VP0qFFKsK1sZqNX9iOTi39IstlF8xoXAUhO/O8ElUjNqeQawq5AK7FPbVEGRKWrb 6a0LRaI1nTRP/tefI33CCC7TzYea2g1xDxUn5Z0Yg30rHADIixgTJe7D+GQHQJuDDT68 lu+fq86PVnkjs7prbZA89zlrTZS2L6k82XfTFmgcv/wHXWgZNDNjS53zjNMvk6gTJ2A9 xYjw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1722799657; x=1723404457; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=vqwnzLEfeClr8KWOWCGqSVFgE9PtNSgIF3YqppZc+jY=; b=igyxuNT6SCF6MwaUiE6LXTFD2somVc3Psd8MtjSGNnG8MBhNHmqMwsSyFVTAQ3K8Lo HvzdLZePxyXWBdR0JyZEB7Swgc8sT3dtIo4LqQmaR+UdJLhOAQABI7uR0/NCCxCbKrwg l26Etx9Az1jGrMerGmJP9ZtVwxoi4ItEMk5a3xjuBFzARIsqBAz5qKITK9EuwopCdvVM 8lyzyGS2jLyyPbjzL6594Q47Whykt4r6k7/mvQcFHlfhpAHgitMz6Uce75zn4zZ9uW/U 0iCqaOkrne4tfb8azkWTnR9tRTwmr0ZbjRNEKNWlNvUKA7huPW2CHmHxuZYsrNrCwFHl cx8w== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCXCBGKDyt+zqLZ3WLjobe4gEKA8Ry1yUzxBFuo8iFF0xjUyVCpe9kwE2j/jX+mI45LljiXEkJiNiqEDd8VhF8O6lo/uyfQ26QwI/oQ= X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YxAWoVntY2moHp+Ae9SAW/uww4iOaC4BDFs8ncca82u2aVUUu9q qlbjTtznVAtyp8sS723ZA6mYfAdu0ZP/mEgd+f2vGRKkXM0nqGIDUBIRyNvlSdqnhPkQEj/CF5r /V84Lrbsio8c6XjnXp+NTui5LOy1urSyRnTwzfxgYUeTRMHB8 X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGPUZuUVhQqtaf59cCMLUE+wP8e/nNJaMzXJ8MSCnQ2EoOwPXZrSObUkVRtmn4MJFg6cA4Wx39elfcAr/kYZdI= X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:a00e:b0:2c9:7cb6:38b0 with SMTP id 98e67ed59e1d1-2cff9444f6bmr8350401a91.19.1722799657053; Sun, 04 Aug 2024 12:27:37 -0700 (PDT) List-Id: Technical discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-hackers List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <202408041800.474I0HUM050473@critter.freebsd.dk> <202408041820.474IKjVV050602@critter.freebsd.dk> <202408041904.474J4b9e050871@critter.freebsd.dk> In-Reply-To: <202408041904.474J4b9e050871@critter.freebsd.dk> From: Warner Losh Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2024 13:27:25 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: A Demo of rust-in-base To: Poul-Henning Kamp Cc: Alan Somers , FreeBSD Hackers Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000940d3e061ee08d14" X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4WcV2f4Zkcz4TSW --000000000000940d3e061ee08d14 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Aug 4, 2024, 1:05=E2=80=AFPM Poul-Henning Kamp = wrote: > -------- > Alan Somers writes: > > On Sun, Aug 4, 2024 at 12:20=3DE2=3D80=3DAFPM Poul-Henning Kamp > > dk> wrote: > > > > How is that different from any other dependency management in ports ? > > > > Because those two components need to be updated in lock-step with > > potentially any git commit to the base system. Not just official > > releases, even minor ones. > > I'm not trying to be glib here: I really want to make sure I understand > any fine nuances you are trying to communicate. > > Isn't that precisely what drm-kmod already deals with ? > There's two issues with drm-kmod. 1 is KPI and keeping up. That's pretty easy to manage in the grand scheme of things. The other is KBI and matching the kernel. The massive inlining in linuxkpi make a stable KBI basically impossible (I did it for much of 12.x, and that was a nightmare because it broke faster than I had time to fix it). Warner --=20 > Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 > phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 > FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe > Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetenc= e. > > --000000000000940d3e061ee08d14 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Sun, Aug 4, 2024, 1:05=E2=80=AFPM Poul-Henning Kamp= <phk@phk.freebsd.dk> wrote= :
--------
Alan Somers writes:
> On Sun, Aug 4, 2024 at 12:20=3DE2=3D80=3DAFPM Poul-Henning Kamp <ph= k@phk.freebsd.=3D
> dk> wrote:

> > How is that different from any other dependency management in por= ts ?
>
> Because those two components need to be updated in lock-step with
> potentially any git commit to the base system.=C2=A0 Not just official=
> releases, even minor ones.

I'm not trying to be glib here: I really want to make sure I understand=
any fine nuances you are trying to communicate.

Isn't that precisely what drm-kmod already deals with ?

There's two = issues with drm-kmod. 1 is KPI and keeping up. That's pretty easy to ma= nage in the grand scheme of things.

The other is KBI and matching the kernel. The massive inlining = in linuxkpi make a stable KBI basically impossible (I did it for much of 12= .x, and that was a nightmare because it broke faster than I had time to fix= it).

Warner


--
Poul-Henning Kamp=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| BSD since 4.3-tahoe=C2=A0 =C2= =A0
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.=

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