From owner-svn-src-all@freebsd.org Sat Sep 5 03:48:09 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: svn-src-all@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 205713DCF0B for ; Sat, 5 Sep 2020 03:48:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-qk1-x730.google.com (mail-qk1-x730.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::730]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Bk0r82sDvz3YgP for ; Sat, 5 Sep 2020 03:48:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-qk1-x730.google.com with SMTP id b14so8414204qkn.4 for ; Fri, 04 Sep 2020 20:48:08 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=mQEB8YXPsMbSNX4aOHZZu9JlOR/ZacHciu3LAd2vYv0=; b=RsO8fTTewNumKzhIBFm71KmdQRyGhwFQJnUB5DEgo8C2PGkLIOjzteih3avxCuYL9I U47RrdoeJi/oFmpwI4K7AyRYeH2b5vLB/FzLrKj6El2vWaZmQj2tbrWtof7c3o6vgBA6 iVeFYntJJB/m3k83RM8rYKKhliTI1WF6mlmVH9Xcbe5nEC4el672Zcz1kriyBe8WYm5n DanxGc6D8LtzCTfj2ldUDJ/emE76pXn4sxf2BFzQlLhakJvij4EX38/h5xV8X0xZJa72 SOarno2V0NFfeosBcBcuN1PHYiagL3lJoQFlJ6+xIJA5vPO4NcfO0PB1VERZ+eLwvi6H mPVA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=mQEB8YXPsMbSNX4aOHZZu9JlOR/ZacHciu3LAd2vYv0=; b=PjDeCvl5lOpUQRFUwdLKmlp3EIo4JBbneu6gRFOnzenn//13d0wIhNlCKVdRGPFqAi zwX0RYdfNSpyhISL70GmheQZOWCG5osQ7rBzElJz6XQxuyvj3NGpyxTGqkPNp0cQMpf3 WfJc/J/gTqEsmgFmbylUBKuii4uTkdWO8HrI8RSXq6sbyNGBhEeW3OJrQXmQobtC7Xeg bV/wmla8au1o9pyGzBKWvO1gdh6ZJdyS/qQBoT4ycqXXz/yeBWSM9oMlNNrYy73CUQnr GbyJEQqJ3XaIwJzml94EtM/9Yn557JfeoJk96C75twAJE5MJ6f16smLwW/JYNLO6elMx DP3w== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533gzcEKVJv5qh4qHXnTqKUrQG5xavs9tjkWICbrnqkF2M5We8q5 o6TRL0GJ9nEki7JIgsOHaWq3twq5q4K6id18m0MWxQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJz2mHLrBER1o5hULmGwzFZDCKrS8SXqklHrXq3Ija3QcJZpqs13Yzvmt/Id5rmhe37mP6XiXAdKFOxRiAOcZl8= X-Received: by 2002:ae9:f70d:: with SMTP id s13mr4102875qkg.215.1599277687351; Fri, 04 Sep 2020 20:48:07 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <202009012119.081LJERb018106@repo.freebsd.org> <95844C00-D10A-456D-AD29-DF572043074F@fh-muenster.de> <20200902020507.GA38274@FreeBSD.org> <20200902180626.GA88595@FreeBSD.org> <6124a908-25a5-e023-16da-7963ba229b7f@FreeBSD.org> <08636D5E-AA07-4AE7-B5AC-656B08CF564B@fh-muenster.de> <20200903024226.GA54078@FreeBSD.org> <60ea593f-8258-e30d-b897-f162168b44d3@cs.duke.edu> <20200905010510.GA26297@lonesome.com> In-Reply-To: From: Warner Losh Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2020 21:47:55 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: svn commit: r365071 - in head/sys: net net/altq net/route net80211 netgraph netgraph/atm netgraph/atm/ccatm netgraph/atm/sscfu netgraph/atm/sscop netgraph/atm/uni netgraph/bluetooth/common netgraph... To: Kevin Bowling Cc: Mark Linimon , Andrew Gallatin , Alexey Dokuchaev , Michael Tuexen , Pedro Giffuni , Mateusz Guzik , src-committers , svn-src-all@freebsd.org, svn-src-head@freebsd.org X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Bk0r82sDvz3YgP X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.s=20150623 header.b=RsO8fTTe; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of wlosh@bsdimp.com has no SPF policy when checking 2607:f8b0:4864:20::730) smtp.mailfrom=wlosh@bsdimp.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.06 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:s=20150623]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.06)[-1.061]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.003]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[svn-src-all@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[bsdimp.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:+]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-0.997]; RCPT_COUNT_SEVEN(0.00)[10]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::730:from]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[svn-src-all]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 05 Sep 2020 07:43:08 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: svn-src-all@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: "SVN commit messages for the entire src tree \(except for " user" and " projects" \)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 Sep 2020 03:48:09 -0000 On Fri, Sep 4, 2020, 9:11 PM Kevin Bowling wrote: > I disagree that the problem is intractable. It's just a decision and > it has a one time cost with long term benefits like paying off a high > interest loan. The intractability opinion seemed justifiable for a > long time but it's been proven false by other communities, > particularly Go and Rust and there is nothing syntactically special > about these languages that enable this; it's just a decision to make > the style fit an extant formatter. An arbitrary formater may leave a > little bit of annoyance to each person's taste, but that is a tiny > drop in the bucket compared to never having to discuss and especially > correct (which may /seem/ helpful but is pretty offputting to > newcomers). A tool does it, and it takes the wind out of any passive > aggressive bike shed opportunities from either maintainer or > contributor. It sucks that downstreams have to fall in line, but that > doesn't stop progress on any other major changes in FreeBSD. > How often are there really such bikesheds these days? I've seen no evidence of them in the hundreds of phab reviews I've seen. It is the ghost of the past when 10 or 15 years ago it was a big deal. Why bother creating yet another barrier to commits because we used to suck, but now have barely a rumble of bad behavior around it... Warner On Fri, Sep 4, 2020 at 7:57 PM Warner Losh wrote: > > > > On Fri, Sep 4, 2020, 7:05 PM Mark Linimon wrote: > > > > > On Fri, Sep 04, 2020 at 02:15:04PM -0400, Andrew Gallatin wrote: > > > > and I also anticipate it will cause problems with MFCs > > > > > > And existing PRs and DRs. > > > > > > > Or we could just not bother we these changes at all. It's a pipe dream we > > will ever be style(9) compliant in all our code, or that we can magically > > have a tool to enforce in new commits. We have better things to worry > > about. We should continue to ignore this non problem and for new users > > point them at the 95% correct format thing to run their submitted patches > > if they submit something too far out of whack. > > > > The last sweep deleted a boatload of blank lines that were in there on > > purpose. Not worth adding them back, but still annoying to no real > benefit. > > > > I just don't see the benefits at all of doing anything here. The few > > reviews that I've seen mention it seem to be the right level of effort. > > > > Warner > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > svn-src-head@freebsd.org mailing list > > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/svn-src-head > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "svn-src-head-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >